Well actually I didn't ignore anything of the sort as it was never mentioned. I was simply responding to your points which to me seemed to be applying one set of rules to one variable but not to another. You seem to have misunderstand the point of my posts (as perhaps I did with some of your yours, it isn't exactly easy to talk about this kind of thing on a message board!). I wasn't trying to completely dismiss the idea that it is possible for a creater to exist (concious or otherwise), rather that I believe you were wrong to invoke the necessity of such a creator.

Regardless of what is said in the book I fail to see how that affects any of my arguments.

I never did invoke the necessity of a creator.  Simply that there is little to suggest it isn't necessary at present.

It's silly to talk in absolutes when you don't know absolutely everything.

Ok well we're probably actually not too far apart in opinion all things considered then. I would agree that we can't rule out a creator but I would also argue that the necessity of one is far from needed (something we obviously disgree on).

I completely argee with your last sentance and in fact that was what I was trying to suggest with my previous posts when suggesting a creator isn't necissarily needed.

Consider this. If there is other intelligent life forms out there in space, would they have the same beliefs as we Earthlings do? I honestly doubt it. I bet they're way more advanced than us to.

More advanced in religious beliefs?  That's silly... that's like suggesting someone can be more advanced in favorite colours.

Though it's silly to assume they would be more advanced then us in anything quite honestly.

It's another thing that falls in the realm of "don't know, it would be silly to assume."

Afterall the most "reasoned" approach would be to assume that there are both more advanced and less advanced lifeforms out there tecenology.  Even that however is a complete unknown and it would be impossible to gauge if and where in space civilizations we don't even know where we would be technology wise.

Sure back during the "The universe always existed days" it was only logical there were numerous alien races more advanced then us.

In the era of the Big Bang though, things are quite more murky.  You could make various estimations based on our position in the universe vs others... but even that would be sketchy really.

Everyone would like to think of space as this futuristic place where everyone has spaceships and jump gates and teleporters...

but the truth is... it's just as likely that almost every other race out there is just mastering things similiar to fires, castles and muskets.

Although actually you can't even properly chart out the odds of that since we don't even know where technological advancement stops.  Not to mention it's no gurantee that technological advancements would remotely follow similiar paths based on the various different enviroments and possibilities. 

Heck, look at Earth as an example of that.

It would be amusing though, if aliens did land on earth and they did have the same religion as one of the major religions.  Just the extended version where they were then called to their planet for teaching from ours... and treated our planet as Space Jerusalem.

It'd make an interesting Sci-Fi tale for sure, espeically if they did advance beyond us in technology.

I've alway's said if an alien lifeform were to ever visit earth the first thing ''they'' would judge us on is the fact that something ancient like religion is still widely accepted here. In their eyes it would probably make us look like cavemen.

The thing about the concept of God if one takes a look at all the historical sources of religion then there is nothing in any religion whether in oral or written form that is at all compatible with what Stephen Hawkins is discussing. We read about a human like God with human like emotions and at the very most it created the earth, sun, moon, stars and the sky but nothing more. I find no evidence of a God from any religious and historical sources that could have created the universe as we know it today. And no I don't rely on faith, I believe in facts, evidence and reason.

The point I'm trying to make is since there is no evidence of such a God, it is completely and utterly irrelevant to bring God into the discussion with regards to the creation of the Universe unless we've conveniently changed our interpretation (and that's all it is, not to be confused with fact) of what a God is.

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.

- Albert Einstein

Keep in mind the bottom quote came from personal letters released well after Einstein's death.  It would have been unwise for him to make his opinions public.  So yes, you are correct in that Einstein did say that he believed in God, but his personal letters to family and friends show otherwise.

Lol, my thoughts exactly.

He said "because of the existence of gravity the Universe can create itself from nothing"

Well then where the hell did gravity come from?!   Is gravity no longer counted as "something"?