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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Abbie Heppe (G4TV): Metroid: Other M is Sexist

Killiana1a said:
jarrod said:
Killiana1a said:

Samus has faced Ridley how many times now? Twice? So why did Sakamoto go and make her have a PTSD flashback?

Because she thought he was dead actually.  And from the manga (and implied in the cutscene flashback) Ridley terrorized her as a child, and Samus literally fears Ridley.  There's an element of shock here, and element of phobia, and maybe the team could be at fault for getting that across properly... but having a character break down for 30 seconds is sexism? Inappropriately misusing the term, as it's clearly being here, fundamentally devalues it. And in an industry that is seriously rife with legitimate sexism that too often goes overlooked or unsaid, I'd say that's even doubly sinful, especially when we're talking about a series that was arguably one of the standard bearers and trailblazers for positive female characters.  Even games like Tomb Raider or Street Fighter II were more exploitative than this is.

I have yet to remember games where my male protagonist broke down in a PTSD flashback.

Yes, thanks for bringing up the history that those of us who do not read the manga, but play the games do not know. Sakamoto should have done more backstory in Metroid, Metroid 2, Super Metroid and all of Metroid Prime to show us why Samus had this breakdown.

Sakamoto's fault entirely. I don't blame Team Ninja as Metroid is Sakamoto's baby.

Tomb Raider and Street Fighter can be overlooked as just another game by the boys for the boys. Metroid: Other M tries to take Samus seriously and in doing so, it appears as if it's characterization of Samus is hitting on the core of her womanhood by having her cower.

If she faced her childhood fears twice in Ridley, then why did Sakamoto have Samus breakdown during the third time? Doesn't make sense.

I haven't either, but PTSD doesn't exactly gel with juvenile male power fantasy, so I'm not exactly surprised.  Then again, I tend to shy away from action/hero/war/fantasy games, and the games I do enjoy tend not to deal with scenarios where PTSD would be a likely element.  A 30 second freakout just doesn't seem like a such a big deal to me though, and certainly not sexist.  A male would fit into the exact same scene, identically as presented even, and no one would ever say that.

Also, Sakamoto didn't work on Metroid 2 or the Primes, just the original, Super, Fusion and Zero Mission.  8-16bit cartridge games don't exactly give all that much room for narrative excess, though he did consult heavily on the mangas, which Nintendo considers canon.  They should probably release them here honestly, they're not bad fanservice.

'By the boys, for the boys' is probably the worst excuse I've ever heard for the permissive sexism this industry is plagued with.  That sort of boys club mentality is precisely the problem.

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD? 



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Hynad said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
Killiana1a said:
jarrod said:
Killiana1a said:

Samus has faced Ridley how many times now? Twice? So why did Sakamoto go and make her have a PTSD flashback?

Because she thought he was dead actually.  And from the manga (and implied in the cutscene flashback) Ridley terrorized her as a child, and Samus literally fears Ridley.  There's an element of shock here, and element of phobia, and maybe the team could be at fault for getting that across properly... but having a character break down for 30 seconds is sexism? Inappropriately misusing the term, as it's clearly being here, fundamentally devalues it. And in an industry that is seriously rife with legitimate sexism that too often goes overlooked or unsaid, I'd say that's even doubly sinful, especially when we're talking about a series that was arguably one of the standard bearers and trailblazers for positive female characters.  Even games like Tomb Raider or Street Fighter II were more exploitative than this is.

I have yet to remember games where my male protagonist broke down in a PTSD flashback.

Yes, thanks for bringing up the history that those of us who do not read the manga, but play the games do not know. Sakamoto should have done more backstory in Metroid, Metroid 2, Super Metroid and all of Metroid Prime to show us why Samus had this breakdown.

Sakamoto's fault entirely. I don't blame Team Ninja as Metroid is Sakamoto's baby.

Tomb Raider and Street Fighter can be overlooked as just another game by the boys for the boys. Metroid: Other M tries to take Samus seriously and in doing so, it appears as if it's characterization of Samus is hitting on the core of her womanhood by having her cower.

If she faced her childhood fears twice in Ridley, then why did Sakamoto have Samus breakdown during the third time? Doesn't make sense.

Actually she met Ridley in the manga, had a nervous breakdown remembering what happened in her childhood, was completely useless for a few chapters, then got better. I don't remember if she defeated Ridley during that time, but it seemed like she had gotten over her fear of him.

Here is the manga if you want to read it.


She reacts like this in Other M, although she defeated him 4 times already at this point. ¬_¬


So doing a breakdown at this point is not justifiable.

BTW, I saw a video of the scene, and I found my new "Aang Ain't White". Samus Does Not Gasp!



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Originally i was quite violently opposed to that Ridley scene, but hearing the debate on both sides i can see the legitimate points on both ends, and i would guess that the scene's offensiveness comes down to execution. Given that Samus is always explaining everything in internal monologue, they could've explained *why* she was terrified (though they did a little with a flashback to her child self), and her suit malfunctioning while in his claws seems a little too convenient by any standard

 

But while Samus should have confidence that she's killed him 2-5 times before this, she could also be scared because she never seems to be able to kill him dead.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I have deep seated, childhood originated, phobia of sharks.  I've confronted that fear in my adult life, directly even (with a REAL shark), but I'm still liable to freak out if caught off guard by one.  Hell, I could barely get through Endless Ocean 2, that game was traumatic at times for me.

I envy those of you who've never legitimately feared anything before, and seemingly can't reconcile how it's even possible.  Lucky you.



jarrod said:

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD?

In the manga Samus met Ridley, had a PSTD, was completely useless for a while, Then she got better. There is no point in portraying Samus like she goes like this every time she meets Ridley, otherwise she should have died in Metroid 1.



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Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD?

In the manga Samus met Ridley, had a PSTD, was completely useless for a while, Then she got better. There is no point in portraying Samus like she goes like this every time she meets Ridley, otherwise she should have died in Metroid .

I know.  But, PSTD isn't something you really 'get over', the trauma causes a permanent damage.  It's something you cope with, or at least try to.  And for someone as emotionally stunted and distant as Samus is supposed to be, with basically no support network to fall back on, that's likely even more difficult.  

Samus was caught off guard, by surprise, and she relapsed.  That's not exactly abnormal, or even unlikely.



jarrod said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD?

In the manga Samus met Ridley, had a PSTD, was completely useless for a while, Then she got better. There is no point in portraying Samus like she goes like this every time she meets Ridley, otherwise she should have died in Metroid .

I know.  But, PSTD isn't something you really 'get over', the trauma causes a permanent damage.  It's something you cope with, or at least try to.  And for someone as emotionally stunted and distant as Samus is supposed to be, with basically no support network to fall back on, that's likely even more difficult.

Samus was caught off guard, by surprise, and she relapsed.  That's not exactly abnormal, or even unlikely.

Then she should have died in Metroid 1 because there was no one there to help her, would have made a downer ending, but it would have fit Sakamoto's vision.



The game isn't even out yet and clearly going by all the reviews so far, it's a subpar Metroid game.

Worthy of 40%? I don't think it could possibly be that bad or it would have been delayed but most of her criticisms are fair. The whole sexist issue is not though.. She mentions that she can't use her items until 'a man tells her to' in the video but we've been told that she chooses not to as she made the mistake of not following orders previously and wants to prove she's disciplined now.

Super Mario Galaxy was a fantastic reboot of the Mario franchise, Metroid: Other M has seemed to miss the mark.. Hopefully Zelda: Skyward Sword can be more like Mario than Samus..

Edit: Sakamoto saying this is the perfect Metroid experience is telling of what needs to happen to him when it comes time for a new Metroid title (He needs to stay far, far away)



 

Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD?

In the manga Samus met Ridley, had a PSTD, was completely useless for a while, Then she got better. There is no point in portraying Samus like she goes like this every time she meets Ridley, otherwise she should have died in Metroid .

I know.  But, PSTD isn't something you really 'get over', the trauma causes a permanent damage.  It's something you cope with, or at least try to.  And for someone as emotionally stunted and distant as Samus is supposed to be, with basically no support network to fall back on, that's likely even more difficult.

Samus was caught off guard, by surprise, and she relapsed.  That's not exactly abnormal, or even unlikely.

Then she should have died in Metroid 1 because there was no one there to help her, would have made a downer ending, but it would have fit Sakamoto's vision.

Again, these sort of responses are unpredictable.  And afaik, we don't have much backstory on Metroid 1's setup outside the bounty order on Mother Brain, so Samus likely went in expecting to face Ridley and able to prepare herself.  Which is... well, different than what we have in Other M.



jarrod said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
jarrod said:

And as far as the freakout itself, Samus thought she'd killed Ridley and blew up the planet he was on.  In the manga he'd told her as a child he can escape death by consuming the flesh of others, the realization of that being true likely just heightened the shock and may have helped trigger the response.  That's how PTSD works, it's not predictable, and anything could trigger it really.  Plus it's also not like we really saw Samus response one way or the other in Metroid 1 or 3, though she did also inexplicably pause for several seconds when first encountering Ridley in Super Metroid , which allowed him to roid-nap the baby and take it off the space station.  Perhaps that was the 16bit portrayal of shock/hesitation/panic/PTSD?

In the manga Samus met Ridley, had a PSTD, was completely useless for a while, Then she got better. There is no point in portraying Samus like she goes like this every time she meets Ridley, otherwise she should have died in Metroid .

I know.  But, PSTD isn't something you really 'get over', the trauma causes a permanent damage.  It's something you cope with, or at least try to.  And for someone as emotionally stunted and distant as Samus is supposed to be, with basically no support network to fall back on, that's likely even more difficult.

Samus was caught off guard, by surprise, and she relapsed.  That's not exactly abnormal, or even unlikely.

Then she should have died in Metroid 1 because there was no one there to help her, would have made a downer ending, but it would have fit Sakamoto's vision.

Again, these sort of responses are unpredictable.  And afaik, we don't have much backstory on Metroid 1's setup outside the bounty order on Mother Brain, so Samus likely went in expecting to face Ridley and able to prepare herself.  Which is... well, different than what we have in Other M.

It is shown in the manga, Adam gives her bombs, while a ghost of Chozo shows her were the Varia suite is, and that makes her practically invulnerable to Ridley's attacks, and here is a little exchange were it proves that Samus got over her problems with RIdley.