Wii Play came with a controller
and Wii Sports Resort has been bundled but that is it.

You say this is an HD debate but the success of the Wii shows that not everyone is into FPS 

the main reason is that for years now there has been a very vocal group of users on vgchartz who have been claiming GT5 will sell over 14 million copies and push PS3 hardware through the roof and outsell every console on the market from now on just from the one game.

when in actuality neither is going to happen.

Not that it makes a huge difference but Kinect is being pushed as a revolution of HARDWARE i feel its preorders will be increased by this alone. Where move is being pushed as a companion device.

And the obvious difficulty tracking the pieces of move make it a wait and see situation if ive ever seen one.

I do think Sony is screwing up by not offering a simple buy in at the sacrifice of money. They should include a Navi in the $100 bundle and offer a bundle for 69.99 with Sports champions Move and Navi. 

2 bundles, one for PSEye one without for existing users. Easy peasy. 

This ridiculously confusing peripheral expansion will be the end of Move, nothing else, imo.

The number one failure of Move is lack of Navi in bundles and lack of out of the box COMPLETE move experience. Argue all you want, theres going to be some pissed of consumers and consumers ranting about nickel and diming so theyre kids can play the games that require 2 Move controllers.

I honestly believe Move is the better product, but i also honestly believe sony fucked up big time and handed the next stage of motion controls to MSFT on a silver platter.

I agree completely on how Sony has royally messed up the way they have packaged and marketed Move.  The fact is its just too damn confusing to the average casual consumer.  They see a bunch of separate pieces all of which are used in different amounts with different game with Move, whereas with Kinect you buy just one single piece of hardware that works universally with every Kinect game.  This is the single biggest problem with Move and will kill its sales.

I've said it millions of times and I'll say it again.....GT5 will Not, I repeat not sell more than 10 million!!!

Who ever says that is insane, I expect 2-4 million WW sales, but this is also my prediction for Fable 3

Kinect looks like it will be a big hit, Everyone I met seems interested in this little device

Yeap, i have no doubt in my mind when people demo Move at BB and Walmart they will be blown away by how much better it is than their Wii. But then theyll see the bundle is $400 and if they already have a PS3 they have to buy a $100 bundle and another move control just for what they will consider is Wii sports and see its not worth it.

I just for the life of me cant figure out why theyre bundling this product with a Wii sports clone because even though it is better than wii sports and Move is better than motion plus by ALL accounts of hands on experience not to mention the tech, is it $130 better? Hell no.

Sony should have got their asses into gear and come out with Heroes on the Move, Sorcery and bundled Time Crisis instead of a wii sports clone.

Sony recovered from the PS3 launch and is somehow fucking up the Move launch in the same generation. Its so sad to me.

And i dont feel its off topic, because i think the preorders show this lack of focus and where it makes a big difference.

I would literally bet you both of my testicles it sells more that that by 2011

Move is a better device for hardcores because u can play hardcore games like Kz3 and so on... Kinect is only for casual gamers... nothing else.

Kinect at 91K is good for preorders but wasnt there rumors of already 1 million Kinect preorders ww? Or did I just made that up?

There is a difference between retailer pre orders and consumer pre orders.

Seen as Kinect is targeted at the same people as wii, you'll also notice wii and it's games don't get very high pre orders, it's the type of userbase that doesn't pre order.