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Forums - Sales - Wii losing its thunder?

At this point, I'm just reading this topic to see how long the quotes get.



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jarrod said:
Rpruett said:

If consumers wanted a Wii at first because it was $250 relative to a $300 HD console, why were they often going for $400-plus used on eBay or through Craigslist?   Why did it take FOUR YEARS for Nintendo to finally drop the price (and by a measly 20% at that, PS2's first price drop was 2 years in and 33%).

As I mentioned above, the $300 Core Xbox 360 was not a worthy purchase.  The 360  Arcade (Released 2 years after the 360 came out) actually featured enough to legitimately enjoy your system without buying a ton of extra accessories.

How many consoles were sold over Ebay / Craigslist for $400?  I don't have those figures do you?  Why did PS2 sell for 800-900$ before it even released?  Who knows.  Why did Tickle Me Elmo get sold out across the country and have people murdering each other for one?  Nobody knows.  Someone will always pay a price for something.

It took Nintendo four years to drop the price because of two reasons :  

A.)  Momentum.  When you have doubled the sales of 360/PS3 within only 1 year on the market, and you double them on your 2nd year on the market and possibly even the third year on the market?   Guess what?  You have the pricing control now. You don't **NEED** to drop the price of your system. Your system is what people ' want' because all of their friends have it, their kids have it, etc etc.   If you DON'T have it, you're missing out.    Pricing matters less and less as the generation wears on.   As all systems eventually sit near each other.

B.)  Competitions High Price Point.    As I mentioned earlier, the competition's standard fully functional models ($600/$400) respectively were a combined $500 more expensive than an entry level Wii.  Even taking the absolute barebones (Discontinued SKU's from MS / Sony)  ($300/$500) respectively you are looking at a combined $300 more expensive than a Wii.   It took the competition four years to get within a reasonable range of the Wii's price.

 

What you don't seem to get is that consumers wanted Wii because of what they could play on it, millions bought it literally for Wii Sports alone.  Worse, I can shoot down your "quality games on GC/N64" argument by also stating "low entry point for GC/N64"... why's it only work one way and not the other?  Wii was more expensive than GC/N64, and price barrier between it and competitors' launch prices were greater on GC/N64... yet I don't seem to really remember anything on N64 or GC much like Wii Sports...

What?  Are you confused?   Gamecube launched at $200?  PS2 launched at $300 ?  Xbox launched at $300.  A combined difference of only $200 in pricing.  ((300-200 = 100)   (300-200 = 100) = 200).  The difference this generation ((500-250 = 250) (300-250 = 50) =  $300) That is still even taking the barest of barebones consoles from MS/Sony (When you take full-fledged models that number becomes drastically more skewed.)   ((600-250 = 350) (400-250 = 150) =$ 500)

It's not about the individual consoles price.  It's about the CONTEXT in which the consoles price exists.  These things don't occurr in a vacumn.  GC may have been cheaper but relative to it's competition it absolutely was not.

One more factor to take note of, is Sony was the top dog in this generation.  By them releasing a significantly more expensive console (Twice as much as the Wii even with the discontinued barebones SKU) they completely shifted consumer attitude.    MS wasn't nearly as established as Nintendo or Sony. 

 

Joe schmoe could by a 360 for $300 in 2005 and have fun with it.  He'd need a memory card to save game data (there's another $20-40), but that's no different than literally every other console on the market at that time (besides Xbox 1).  Something tells me VGA cables and wired controllers worked fine then too (both also industry standard), hell Wii and PS3 still come with VGA cables in every SKU afaik.

On a console that's big draw is the online interface, market place, etc....You're damn right having only a 'memory card' is a big hinderance.  Especially on a console that is far more focused on online play than solo play.  You answered your own question. It absolutely was different than any other console on the market at that time (Because the other models of 360's showed this).

And despite how you might want to discount the Core, it still existed and was still only $50 more than a Wii.  GameCube most certainly had a greater entry point price gap ($100) and that was actually key it's marketing (as it was for Dreamcast).  All this is really beside the point though, since you still seem unable to bring up any shred of concrete evidence that pricepoint was a driver here.  You can keep reiterating the same unfounded logical fallacy if you like, but until you can do more than argue in a circle, I think we're done here.

And Microsoft was far from an established brand.  Microsoft was a distant 2nd/3rd placed ranged console last generation.  This generation people were more curious to see what Sony had brought to the table and Nintendo had a namesake that was much larger in the console business than Microsoft. 

Had Sony released a 'Core' system that was only $50 more than a Wii and the Wii still outsold it, you would have a point.  However, when the previous generations 'winner'  comes out and announces a price of $600 all excitement and general positive attitude went downhill and shifted focus.

 


We can be done here since we obviously don't see eye to eye and we are running in circles.  However,  you have yet to address the historically high price ratios between competing consoles and the Wii that didn't exist in previous generations.  You have yet to address the fact that no console generation winner has ever been priced above $300. You have yet to address that the previous generation winner (PS2) priced itself literally at a minimum of double the Wii's price and how that impacts a lot (And if that has ever even remotely happened before)    What about the Wii's attach ratio...For a system built on software?

I don't think this is nearly as cut and dry as you make it out to be. 



Soma said:

If I remember correctly, that E3 was open to the public.


E3 is never open to the public.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Rpruett said:

Joe schmoe could by a 360 for $300 in 2005 and have fun with it.  He'd need a memory card to save game data (there's another $20-40), but that's no different than literally every other console on the market at that time (besides Xbox 1).  Something tells me VGA cables and wired controllers worked fine then too (both also industry standard), hell Wii and PS3 still come with VGA cables in every SKU afaik.

On a console that's big draw is the online interface, market place, etc....You're damn right having only a 'memory card' is a big hinderance.  Especially on a console that is far more focused on online play than solo play.  You answered your own question. It absolutely was different than any other console on the market at that time (Because the other models of 360's showed this).

And despite how you might want to discount the Core, it still existed and was still only $50 more than a Wii.  GameCube most certainly had a greater entry point price gap ($100) and that was actually key it's marketing (as it was for Dreamcast).  All this is really beside the point though, since you still seem unable to bring up any shred of concrete evidence that pricepoint was a driver here.  You can keep reiterating the same unfounded logical fallacy if you like, but until you can do more than argue in a circle, I think we're done here.

And Microsoft was far from an established brand.  Microsoft was a distant 2nd/3rd placed ranged console last generation.  This generation people were more curious to see what Sony had brought to the table and Nintendo had a namesake that was much larger in the console business than Microsoft. 

Had Sony released a 'Core' system that was only $50 more than a Wii and the Wii still outsold it, you would have a point.  However, when the previous generations 'winner'  comes out and announces a price of $600 all excitement and general positive attitude went downhill and shifted focus.

 


We can be done here since we obviously don't see eye to eye and we are running in circles.  However,  you have yet to address the historically high price ratios between competing consoles and the Wii that didn't exist in previous generations.  You have yet to address the fact that no console generation winner has ever been priced above $300. You have yet to address that the previous generation winner (PS2) priced itself literally at a minimum of double the Wii's price and how that impacts a lot (And if that has ever even remotely happened before)    What about the Wii's attach ratio...For a system built on software?

I don't think this is nearly as cut and dry as you make it out to be. 

Eh, almost all 360's year one hits (GeoWars, Dead Rising, Gears, Oblivion, Saints Row, etc) were primarily lauded as or for their single player experiences.  It really wasn't until 360's second year (and games like Halo 3 or Modern Warfare) that multiplayer really emerged as the defining and driving market for the console, and Live really came into it's own as a selling point.

And now the standard's shifted to price differential with the previous market leader?  Do me a favor and let me know when you decide to finally set down those goalposts. ;)

 

I've adressed the historical price ratios already... they were higher on GameCube ($100 to PS2/Xbox).  And since you seem stuck on launch pricepoints, they were higher for N64 as well ($100 to PS1, $200 to Saturn).  Frankly, the fact that you can't seem to reconcile the Core's existence isn't my problem.  And neither is your-bait-n-sitch on suddenly centering around "market leader".  Just because Sony blew it with PS3 pricing doesn't mean Nintendo was inherently pre-ordained to take over.  Especially when you had a 10 million strong 360 base, and new consumers could get the system for less than that magic $300 barrier.

And Wii's attach ratio is fine, what's historically off about it?  It's not as good as 360/PS2 admittedly, but it's still generally on par with GC/Xbox/PS3.  Wii Sports likely helps and hurts that simultaneously.  So does the record breaking hardware sales, systems that sell slower tend to get higher ratios due to length of ownership.

 

Still, the central problem remains for you... there isn't any real evidence the $250 pricepoint was what drove massmarket adoption and record breaking sales for Wii.  And until you can deliver on that, your argument is hollow at best.



Wii loses thunders because its sphincter doesn't hold anymore, after a chimp mistook it for a frog.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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Oh no PS360 going to catch up sometime soon....I was dreading this happening.



Xbox 360 and Xbox One

Gamertag:  GamertagOz70

The Wii did have the best E3 of the 3 next-gen consoles this year. It has some killer games coming out at the end of the year. Kirby Epic Yarn, Zelda: Skyward Sword, DKC Returns, Metroid Other M, Just Dance 2, Disney Epic Mickey and James Bond 007 GoldenEye are all exclusive to the Wii and many of these titles are going to be huge hits. I think Wii sales will be high again this year. The PS3 will still have the highest priced system. Just because Wii sales have slowed down, doesn't  mean it won't have another great holiday season.



__________________________________________

'gaming till I'm gone'

Carl2291 said:

Okay. We're at a stalemate here and we're moving away from the original point ¬_¬

My point is. The Motion Controls of the Wii are no way a secondary reason for Wii's success.

Not a chance.

No way.

No.

Wii Sports would not have been the same game without Motion Controls. It would not have gone on to be the most important game this generation without the Motion.

Wii Sports needed the Motion just as much as the Motion needed Wii Sports.

Price - That's a whole different point that I'm not going into.

Just remember, people always always always buy a console for one purpose, and one purpose only. To play GAMES. Wii is not exempt from this rule just because it has motion controls. You can say people wanted to try motion controls.. Ok, fine. But what exactly are people using these motion controls for? You guessed it, to play GAMES.

Did motion controls in Wii Sports add an entirely new appeal and fresh/intuitive way to play the game? Absolutely. But had the GAME itself Wii Sports been broken/boring/poorly made, it would not have succeeded the way it did. This cannot be denied.

If motion controls were such a key factor in a game's/console's success, games like Zack and Wiki and Red Steel 2 that rely heavilly on motion controls wouldn't have flopped in sales.



Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
Rpruett said:
jarrod said:
Rpruett said:

.  What makes a Wii more appealing than a full-fledged motion control line-up of Kinect or Move?  

The same thing that made Wii a success in the first place: Nintendo games.

Wii Party alone will probably outsell all the (unbundled) Move and Kinect launch games combined.


I don't believe for one second that Nintendo games were the sole or even primary reason for Nintendo being in a success in the first place this generation.  I believe Motion controls and price take the top two spots. 

The Nintendo games just were after thoughts or benefits after the fact.  I say this because,  I have had a blast playing Nintendo games on every Nintendo console (Dating back to NES/SNES/N64/GameCube)  good games from Nintendo has been a constant not a variable.    Motion controls and price (relative to the competition) is a variable however. 

I think the point is... Nintendo Games are what made the motion controls successful.

I mean, how many good third party motion control focused games are there on Wii?

OK, so why is that going to be different with PS3? 

Can sony make good motion control wii like games?  Who know.

As many Nintendo fans have pointed out to me before,  the Wii was practically a critical success before it even hit the market.  Lines were incredibly long just to 'try' to play the Wii.  There NEVER was the same buzz for the Gamecube as for the Wii (For example) .

In my opinion, this is not something that would have occurred had the pricing been out of range / if the Wii did not have motion controls.  As has been mentioned many times before, the Wii is essentially a Gamecube 1.5 with Motion Controls and a cheaper price than the competition. 

Why did it sell gangbusters (From Day 1)  and the Gamecube not?   And don't tell me the software. 

And... if Wii sports would of sucked... everybody would of went home.

Also, i'm pretty sure the gamecube, 360, playstation and pretty much every console ever had big lines at launch.



Oh, one more thing to add about the motion controls; They did indeed help drive success of the Wii, but at the end of the day, their main funcion is to act as TOOLS that attempt to reach out and bring accessibility to the expanded audience (and to a lesser extent, add a fresh way to play games for people who already play them). But if the games themselves that USE these motion controls aren't accessible, and/or are of poor quality, the motion controls become largely irrelivent.

This is why so many 3rd party Wii efforts failed, and why many were stunned at their failure. They were using motion controls, which were designed to bring accessibility and ease to gameplay, but then they go and use them for these complex games, often poorly made, which contradict this mantra of ease of use. What games like Wii Sports do is they utilize the strengths and purposes of the motion controls to their advantage.They help to create a game that is accessible, fun, intuitive, and fast-paced. These are qualities that I believe the average consumer appreciates most when dealing with video games, and it is why Wii Sports is one of the most popular games.