It's exactly the same.  You are trying to use the simple justification that "It's always happened therefore it's ok."

Amd are you sure there was always a moral judement about murder?

If you think so... I have another example.

Up until recently it was seen as completely moral and wasn't against the law to rape your own wife.

If she didn't want to have sex, and you did.  Tough for her!   So then, by your standards, the husband has an arguement based on the fact that the law and thoughts of morality are a modern device, eh?

Or Slavery for that matter.   Used to be consdiered moral by all before their were laws calling it illegal and attitudes calling it immoral.

So... you're wrong.  Also, how do you know these things WEREN'T considered immorral or wrong then?  Afterall moving to Rome DID NOT make you a Roman Citizen...and furthermore when things went wrong... guess who they went after first?

I have to agree with the OP

whether you like it or not THE LAW IT THE LAW, if you're coming here in any other way other than what the legal standards than what the state/country have provided/required than it is breaking the law, yes it might be a tough spill to swallow but laws these laws are made to protect the citizens of that country/state, I know all laws have their pros and cons but most of these laws mostly stay in affect or exist because the pros outweigh  the cons, or don't infringe on the state/federal laws or our state/country's constitutional rights. and if the law seems unfair/unconstitutional, we have the right to fight/protest against it.(well atleast in america) yes the arizona is a hot topic and I am against it because it does shows discrimination against a certain group of american citizens, not because it can possibly catch illegal immigrants.

though I respect mexicans(and other ethnicities) coming here to better their lives, but atleast do it by what the states/country requires you to do, I know people here are saying not all illegal immigrants are bad, and by god that's true! but some are. but as therealmafoo provided facts on the crimes illegal immigrants commit you can't turn a blind eye to that, if you or your family were victims of those crimes;  I would believe that you would  want them punished to the fullest extent of your country's law and not "possibly" deported back and lost in the legal system or worst the illegal immigrants flees and hides behind their country's laws and constitutional rights.(though i will admit some illegal immigrants do see punishment by the laws the state/country do provide)

just to sum it up: I am all for people coming to america to better theirs lives or do what ever the f*** they want(hoping that they don't do anything radical or unlawful), but atleast do it in a manner the doesn't break/infringe our  rights/laws/constitutions. I'm not an expert on U.S. law but I'm pretty sure coming here legally  far outweighs the risks of coming here illegally.

laws are never perfect and people will always find loopholes and exploit them.

I agree, I mean, I dont get why most people get pissed at USA controlling illegal inmigration, if you want to get to a country, get in in the legal way cause its possible.

 Edit: after reading again, I dont wholy agree, I dont want to say words like inmoral or things like that. But, I think USA as a country  has laws that represent their people, but breaking the laws disrespects the whole nation in a way, they have decided the way they want other people to enter their country in a legal way, and you have to do it that way since its just not your country.

Ilegal inmigration brings other problem besides those, here in Chile we accepted a lot of Peruvians and gave them papers to avoid them being illegal and with this being vulnerable to abuses, if they werent criminals or had something asociated to drugs, they did this and we have no problem with this, the problems is that some bring things you dont want and that are illegal in the country, so I think they have to respect our law since its the will of the people of the nation they want help from.

Notice I dont like the phrases like "they will steal our jobs" and shit like that, but being outside of the law is a bad thing for the people in their new country and for the ones that are illegal since almost nothing protects them.

I often think these eople that end up like shit in the US after being illegal were better off in their countries, though I could be wrong, there are very shitty countries when it comes to life conditions.

I, for one, think we should start stepping up border security on Canada. Do you know how many Canadians are in our country illegally right now? But nobody cares about them because they are not brown and have a funny accent.

Border security and illegal immigration is only a problem in the states that border countries with brown people.

150,000  illegal aliens are Candaians are in the country right now.

Vs... about 5 million illegal mexicans.  Which just counts Mexico... not anywhere else in South America.

So... yeah.  It's got nothing to do with racism.

If the problem was huge in Canada... people in the north would be complaining for sure.

http://www.fairus.org/images/content/pagebuilder/68609.jpg

Nobody would care if there were five million illegal Canadians living in Montana. Because how could you tell? They are not brown. They speak english. They don't have awful stereotypes. They can blend in with a crowd and not be recognized as 'Canadian'.

This same thing is not true for illegal Mexicans. In Arizona, the conservatives wanted police to have the ability to stop anyone that they suspect might be illegal. How else are police going to do this without considering color and language? They wouldn't be able to do this same thing with Canadians in Montana and they wouldn't because nobody would care anyways.

This same thing is true for Russians in Northern California. There are millions of undocumented Russians here, and yet nobody really cares. They are white, so it's not a big deal. 

Mexicans, being brown, are automatically assumed by racist, rich, white conservatives to be lazy, dirty criminals that take all the low wage jobs and spend their days off stealing your fancy sports cars and rolex watches. This, of course, is not true. The fact is, most of the illegal mexicans are poor and barely able to sustain themselves in the first place. Plus they have rich, white, conservatives breathing down their back.

Leave these people alone. Instead of going after these poor people that can barley afford food, let's go after the rich, white, conservatives that run BP and ignored all the warning signs of that oil rig. Let's deport them! Let's go after these bank CEOs and Wall Street criminals that caused an economic disaster that now has 10 percent of people unemployed!

In New Mexico, 44% of the population is Hispanic. In Texas 1/3. In Arizona, 1 in 4.

If anyone living in those states care if your brown, they are living in the wrong state.

Millions of Russians illegally living in the US? Show me some figures. I don't believe it.

And if you want to blame someone for unemployment and BP, blame Washington. Last I checked, that was run by a black guy.

Er... that's an incriedibly racist statement you just made.   How could you tell if there were 5 million illegal canadians living in Montana?   You do know that HUGE numbers of LEGAL hispanic people live in the south west right?

It would be EASY to tell if there were 5 million canadians living in Montanta..  There would be 5 million more people there then should be there.   It would be VERY eaisly noticeable... and yes.  People would care.    Heck how do you think we can you know.... get the numbers of canadians illegal in the country

You are so amazingly off base it's sad... and just making up stuff to try and prove your own point.

"Millions of Russians" I mean... seriously?  Then why isn't it on the list?   Why is there only like... 300,000 including all other USSR countries?

Or more importantly... how do you know they are here illegally?  What if they are just legal russians with an accent.  Would seem to be the case, what with only around 300,000 illegal immigrants in the country from all the USSR states.

Seems like you've done a bit of ethnic profiling.  Bad accent... must be illegal.

Who's the racist? 

You've even mentioned a bunch of reasons why we SHOULD be harder on Illegal immigration.

For the record by the way.   Yes all Illegal immigrants should be deported.  Duh.

Which is why, rather then it being based on suspision... EVERYONE should have to provide ID when being interviewed about a crime or being accused of a crime... and your background should be checked.

Well... there are other more common sense reasons for that!  I mean, you want to make sure who you are talking to is awho you are talking to.  However, you know.  If anyone is found an illegal immigrant by such means they should be deported.  No matter your race.

The big difference is though, the states with big problems immigration wise are the southwest and it's mostly hispanics.

So it makes sense those states would be the first to put in these kind of laws.  You know, since the government isn't enforcing it's own laws.

Desperation a main cause for crime. Oh, com'on. Bullshit.

And are you really saying that immigrants' criminal ratio is the same as that of the native population? Just stop. That's a huge insult. Why do you think so badly of your own people??