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Forums - General - Argentina Legalizes Gay Marriage and Adoption, 1st country in Latin America

Slimebeast on 18 July 2010
dunno001 said:
Slimebeast said:

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over. But yes we're programmed to repulsion towards lots and lots of things. Fear of height, fear of snakes, fear of dark etc.

I'll just clarify one thing. Obviously homosexual men have had sex all through history, I'm in no way denying that, but I wasn't refering to them in that first sentence, I was refering to the majority of males.

Actually, the repetition all seems to be on one side. Several things have been given to you, known facts, if you will (homophobia =/= heterosexual, homosexual acts in other primates, ancient Greek culture, non-Christian societies, etc), yet you are the one who keeps saying, unsubstanciatively, that it is genetic to repel at the idea of a homosexual act. So, if this is so genetic, where's the proof? And what is it that makes people gay? I'm glad to see that you've not tried denying that they exist, but if it were truely genetic, then wouldn't this "repulsive gene" have taken over by now, through natural selection?

But that's exactly what it has! It's the biggest reason why you have homophobia all over the world, in all cultures and in the majority of males.

And this innate homophobia must be culturally overcome. 



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Slimebeast on 18 July 2010
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

Yeah, many people cringe even from just watching a snake on TV.

Well, how's that nature, not nurture?

Monkeys are programmed to fear snakes, so why wouldn't we be

Let me try! Why would we be? We're not the ones supposed to answer the questions here.



This is just getting into a classical nature vs nurture debate. You guys can keep being ignorant if you want, I don't care.



dtewi on 18 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

Yeah, many people cringe even from just watching a snake on TV.

Well, how's that nature, not nurture?

Monkeys are programmed to fear snakes, so why wouldn't we be

Let me try! Why would we be? We're not the ones supposed to answer the questions here.



This is just getting into a classical nature vs nurture debate. You guys can keep being ignorant if you want, I don't care.

Don't try to pull off that passive aggressive bullshit. We're not the ones saying that homophobia is genetic.

You have yet to prove that it is. You only proved that there are natural instincts.

Do you have any reason to claim that it is genetic?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast on 18 July 2010
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

Yeah, many people cringe even from just watching a snake on TV.

Well, how's that nature, not nurture?

Monkeys are programmed to fear snakes, so why wouldn't we be

Let me try! Why would we be? We're not the ones supposed to answer the questions here.



This is just getting into a classical nature vs nurture debate. You guys can keep being ignorant if you want, I don't care.

Don't try to pull off that passive aggressive bullshit. We're not the ones saying that homophobia is genetic.

You have yet to prove that it is. You only proved that there are natural instincts.

Do you have any reason to claim that it is genetic?

I already presented some of my reasons. Read my posts. Homophobia being prevalent during all of mankinds history for example.



Slimebeast on 18 July 2010

Okay, how about this one. I just found my triumph card, a twin study on the subject:

Behav Genet. 2008 May;38(3):257-65. Epub 2008 Mar 18.

Genetic and environmental influences on individual differences in attitudes toward homosexuality: an Australian twin study.

Verweij KJ, Shekar SN, Zietsch BP, Eaves LJ, Bailey JM, Boomsma DI, Martin NG.

Genetic Epidemiology Laboratory, Queensland Institute of Medical Research, 300 Herston Road, Brisbane 4029, QLD, Australia. karinverweij@hotmail.com

Abstract

Previous research has shown that many heterosexuals hold negative attitudes toward homosexuals and homosexuality (homophobia). Although a great deal of research has focused on the profile of homophobic individuals, this research provides little theoretical insight into the aetiology of homophobia. To examine genetic and environmental influences on variation in attitudes toward homophobia, we analysed data from 4,688 twins who completed a questionnaire concerning sexual behaviour and attitudes, including attitudes toward homosexuality. Results show that, in accordance with literature, males have significantly more negative attitudes toward homosexuality than females and non-heterosexuals are less homophobic than heterosexuals. In contrast with some earlier findings, age had no significant effect on the homophobia scores in this study. Genetic modelling showed that variation in homophobia scores could be explained by additive genetic (36%), shared environmental (18%) and unique environmental factors (46%). However, corrections based on previous findings show that the shared environmental estimate may be almost entirely accounted for as extra additive genetic variance arising from assortative mating for homophobic attitudes. The results suggest that variation in attitudes toward homosexuality is substantially inherited, and that social environmental influences are relatively minor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968



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dtewi on 18 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

Yeah, many people cringe even from just watching a snake on TV.

Well, how's that nature, not nurture?

Monkeys are programmed to fear snakes, so why wouldn't we be

Let me try! Why would we be? We're not the ones supposed to answer the questions here.



This is just getting into a classical nature vs nurture debate. You guys can keep being ignorant if you want, I don't care.

Don't try to pull off that passive aggressive bullshit. We're not the ones saying that homophobia is genetic.

You have yet to prove that it is. You only proved that there are natural instincts.

Do you have any reason to claim that it is genetic?

I already presented some of my reasons. Read my posts. Homophobia being prevalent during all of mankinds history for example.

That doesn't really prove it's genetic.

How, when a child doesn't even know about sex or relationships be programmed to hate homosexuality? 

It's simple: IT CAN'T.

A baby doesn't know the concept of relationship. If it spent its childhood learning that homosexuality is accepted and that they're equal to heterosexuals, would you think it would still hate them?

No!

Look at the argument you're trying to validate! It's unsubstantiated and downright ludicrous! 

My thoughts are you're trying to validate whatever homophobic feelings you have by placing blame upon something out of your control.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

dtewi on 18 July 2010
Slimebeast said:

Okay, how about this one. I just found my triumph card, a twin study on the subject:

Behav Genet. 2008 May;38(3):257-65. Epub 2008 Mar 18.

Genetic and environmental influences on individual differences in attitudes toward homosexuality: an Australian twin study.

Verweij KJ, Shekar SN, Zietsch BP, Eaves LJ, Bailey JM, Boomsma DI, Martin NG.

Genetic Epidemiology Laboratory, Queensland Institute of Medical Research, 300 Herston Road, Brisbane 4029, QLD, Australia. karinverweij@hotmail.com

Abstract

Previous research has shown that many heterosexuals hold negative attitudes toward homosexuals and homosexuality (homophobia). Although a great deal of research has focused on the profile of homophobic individuals, this research provides little theoretical insight into the aetiology of homophobia. To examine genetic and environmental influences on variation in attitudes toward homophobia, we analysed data from 4,688 twins who completed a questionnaire concerning sexual behaviour and attitudes, including attitudes toward homosexuality. Results show that, in accordance with literature, males have significantly more negative attitudes toward homosexuality than females and non-heterosexuals are less homophobic than heterosexuals. In contrast with some earlier findings, age had no significant effect on the homophobia scores in this study. Genetic modelling showed that variation in homophobia scores could be explained by additive genetic (36%), shared environmental (18%) and unique environmental factors (46%). However, corrections based on previous findings show that the shared environmental estimate may be almost entirely accounted for as extra additive genetic variance arising from assortative mating for homophobic attitudes. The results suggest that variation in attitudes toward homosexuality is substantially inherited, and that social environmental influences are relatively minor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968


You misconstrued the point:

The attitudes that a child may inherit can cause a differing view on homosexuality as opposed to other children.

It's not saying homophobia is inherited.



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast on 18 July 2010
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

I already presented some of my reasons. Read my posts. Homophobia being prevalent during all of mankinds history for example.

That doesn't really prove it's genetic.

How, when a child doesn't even know about sex or relationships be programmed to hate homosexuality? 

It's simple: IT CAN'T.

A baby doesn't know the concept of relationship. If it spent its childhood learning that homosexuality is accepted and that they're equal to heterosexuals, would you think it would still hate them?

No!

Look at the argument you're trying to validate! It's unsubstantiated and downright ludicrous! 

My thoughts are you're trying to validate whatever homophobic feelings you have by placing blame upon something out of your control.

For a science guy you have a quite primitive view on how genetic programming works together with environmental factors.

Bolded: I already addressed that in the thread. Homophobia (obviously) can be override, at least to some extent. But it takes a larger social effort to remove homophobia than it takes to stimulate homophobia in an average heterosexual human male.

Bolded 2: I'm not that primitive, dude.



dtewi on 18 July 2010
Slimebeast said:
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

I already presented some of my reasons. Read my posts. Homophobia being prevalent during all of mankinds history for example.

That doesn't really prove it's genetic.

How, when a child doesn't even know about sex or relationships be programmed to hate homosexuality? 

It's simple: IT CAN'T.

A baby doesn't know the concept of relationship. If it spent its childhood learning that homosexuality is accepted and that they're equal to heterosexuals, would you think it would still hate them?

No!

Look at the argument you're trying to validate! It's unsubstantiated and downright ludicrous! 

My thoughts are you're trying to validate whatever homophobic feelings you have by placing blame upon something out of your control.

For a science guy you have a quite primitive view on how genetic programming works together with environmental factors.

Bolded: I already addressed that in the thread. Homophobia (obviously) can be override, at least to some extent. But it takes a larger social effort to remove homophobia than it takes to stimulate homophobia in an average heterosexual human male.

Bolded 2: I'm not that primitive, dude.


I'm not a science guy, but if a child doesn't even know the concept of RELATIONSHIPS, then it being homophobic is not possible. Do you think a baby can understand the concept of two men kissing?

And then hate them for it?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

Slimebeast on 18 July 2010
dtewi said:
Slimebeast said:

Okay, how about this one. I just found my triumph card, a twin study on the subject:

Behav Genet. 2008 May;38(3):257-65. Epub 2008 Mar 18.

Genetic and environmental influences on individual differences in attitudes toward homosexuality: an Australian twin study.

Verweij KJ, Shekar SN, Zietsch BP, Eaves LJ, Bailey JM, Boomsma DI, Martin NG.

Genetic Epidemiology Laboratory, Queensland Institute of Medical Research, 300 Herston Road, Brisbane 4029, QLD, Australia. karinverweij@hotmail.com

Abstract

Previous research has shown that many heterosexuals hold negative attitudes toward homosexuals and homosexuality (homophobia). Although a great deal of research has focused on the profile of homophobic individuals, this research provides little theoretical insight into the aetiology of homophobia. To examine genetic and environmental influences on variation in attitudes toward homophobia, we analysed data from 4,688 twins who completed a questionnaire concerning sexual behaviour and attitudes, including attitudes toward homosexuality. Results show that, in accordance with literature, males have significantly more negative attitudes toward homosexuality than females and non-heterosexuals are less homophobic than heterosexuals. In contrast with some earlier findings, age had no significant effect on the homophobia scores in this study. Genetic modelling showed that variation in homophobia scores could be explained by additive genetic (36%), shared environmental (18%) and unique environmental factors (46%). However, corrections based on previous findings show that the shared environmental estimate may be almost entirely accounted for as extra additive genetic variance arising from assortative mating for homophobic attitudes. The results suggest that variation in attitudes toward homosexuality is substantially inherited, and that social environmental influences are relatively minor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968


You misconstrued the point:

The attitudes that a child may inherit can cause a differing view on homosexuality as opposed to other children.

It's not saying homophobia is inherited.

lol, yes it does.

"Although a great deal of research has focused on the profile of homophobic individuals, this research provides little theoretical insight into the aetiology of homophobia". The aim of the study is even in the abstract, loud and clear.