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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Metroid Other M Thread

Khuutra said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

People seem to forget something real important about Samus' portrail in the Primes series.

The reason the Prime series are a side-story is simple: it contains no character development. It's not relevant at all. To say the portrail of Samus is correct there, makes no sense. Nothing happens to the character, so how... can it tell you anything about the character, or what she's really like?

The Prime series developed Samus's character in very appropriate and subtle ways. The best I can think of is in the first game, at the very end if you had 75 % item collection, when she's got her helmet off and is watching the temple collapsing. She looks on as if shocked for a long time, then closes her eyes in resignation and sadness.

It was great because it was subtle but said everything it needed to.

That's not subtle storytelling. What does that say about Samus as a character?

The prime series was more about premises, then any real story. Even the whole evil Samus was very shallow.



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The Prime series is great, but if I remember correctly, everthing was supervised by Nintendo Japan. Retro asked things of how Samus should react to certain situations to know how to develop her personality. I remember it was Miyamoto's idea to give Samus a "bug head", which at the end was the Visor System.



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Stefan.De.Machtige said:

People seem to forget something real important about Samus' portrail in the Primes series.

The reason the Prime series are a side-story is simple: it contains no character development. It's not relevant at all. To say the portrail of Samus is correct there, makes no sense. Nothing happens to the character, so how... can it tell you anything about the character, or what she's really like?

 

I'm sorry, but give me moody music, nice atmosphere, and you get a package that does a lot more things than Other M already. You're a bounty hunter, playing Metroid games kind of makes you feel like one I guess (or at least it's a way to see the ''job'').

So Samus doesn't talk in the first game, the second game and she talks a bit in the intro of Super Metroid, this should make the games side-stories as well I guess. Other M and Fusion are the only true Metroid games!



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SHMUPGurus said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

People seem to forget something real important about Samus' portrail in the Primes series.

The reason the Prime series are a side-story is simple: it contains no character development. It's not relevant at all. To say the portrail of Samus is correct there, makes no sense. Nothing happens to the character, so how... can it tell you anything about the character, or what she's really like?

 

I'm sorry, but give me moody music, nice atmosphere, and you get a package that does a lot more things than Other M already. You're a bounty hunter, playing Metroid games kind of makes you feel like one I guess (or at least it's a way to see the ''job'').

So Samus doesn't talk in the first game, the second game and she talks a bit in the intro of Super Metroid, this should make the games side-stories as well I guess. Other M and Fusion are the only true Metroid games!

THIS. As i said before, i complained about the story, and script in MoM, but i thought it was a good 8-8.5 game. Though the music and the atmosphere is where it really PHAILS.



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

The Prime series developed Samus's character in very appropriate and subtle ways. The best I can think of is in the first game, at the very end if you had 75 % item collection, when she's got her helmet off and is watching the temple collapsing. She looks on as if shocked for a long time, then closes her eyes in resignation and sadness.

It was great because it was subtle but said everything it needed to.

That's not subtle storytelling. What does that say about Samus as a character?

The prime series was more about premises, then any real story. Even the whole evil Samus was very shallow.

That is subtle storytelling. The only way to argue that it isn't is if you don't undertand what subtlety is. What does it say about Samus? It can say quite a lot: it says that she still has an attachment to the Chozo, that the destruction of a temple where no Chozo have lived for decades still wounds her. It says she's still a human who experiences nostalgia and loss, and it does all of that without five-or-ten-minute-long cutscenes with too much internal monologue. Subtlety is about communication with minimum words, minimum action.

Prime had storytelling in spades, but you had to look for it. That's what made it so great.



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KylieDog said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

People seem to forget something real important about Samus' portrail in the Primes series.

The reason the Prime series are a side-story is simple: it contains no character development. It's not relevant at all. To say the portrail of Samus is correct there, makes no sense. Nothing happens to the character, so how... can it tell you anything about the character, or what she's really like?

Actions speak louder than words.  For a silent protagonist this is expecially true.  Prime 3 did it best imo.

You mean the part where Samus's reaction to Ridley ambushing her was to keep firing until she was tackled down a pit and then fighting him all the way down, Gandalf-style?

Or how she reacts to her slow corruption?



I also have to strongly object to the idea that you need explicit dialogue from a character in order to have character development, and that because Samus was mostly silent up to this point she therefore had no character.  The previous Metroid games weren't exactly masterpieces of character-driven stories, but saying that we learned nothing about Samus from those is completely false.



Khuutra said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

The Prime series developed Samus's character in very appropriate and subtle ways. The best I can think of is in the first game, at the very end if you had 75 % item collection, when she's got her helmet off and is watching the temple collapsing. She looks on as if shocked for a long time, then closes her eyes in resignation and sadness.

It was great because it was subtle but said everything it needed to.

That's not subtle storytelling. What does that say about Samus as a character?

The prime series was more about premises, then any real story. Even the whole evil Samus was very shallow.

That is subtle storytelling. The only way to argue that it isn't is if you don't undertand what subtlety is. What does it say about Samus? It can say quite a lot: it says that she still has an attachment to the Chozo, that the destruction of a temple where no Chozo have lived for decades still wounds her. It says she's still a human who experiences nostalgia and loss, and it does all of that without five-or-ten-minute-long cutscenes with too much internal monologue. Subtlety is about communication with minimum words, minimum action.

Prime had storytelling in spades, but you had to look for it. That's what made it so great.

Which means you - the gamer - have to make up an story! Isn't that the prove it doesn't have a real story?

Let's turn your reasoning on mario. How he jumps on enemies, it must show a deep resentment of being a plumber... and the quilt of a runaway sun towards his father.

Face it, Prime had just a premise, with no characterising. From now on metroid will feature a real story. Yay.

Let Samus talk.      



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Khuutra said:

That is subtle storytelling. The only way to argue that it isn't is if you don't undertand what subtlety is. What does it say about Samus? It can say quite a lot: it says that she still has an attachment to the Chozo, that the destruction of a temple where no Chozo have lived for decades still wounds her. It says she's still a human who experiences nostalgia and loss, and it does all of that without five-or-ten-minute-long cutscenes with too much internal monologue. Subtlety is about communication with minimum words, minimum action.

Prime had storytelling in spades, but you had to look for it. That's what made it so great.

Which means you - the gamer - have to make up an story! Isn't that the prove it doesn't have a real story?

Let's turn your reasoning on mario. How he jumps on enemies, it must show a deep resentment of being a plumber... and the quilt of a runaway sun towards his father.

Face it, Prime had just a premise, with no characterising. From now on metroid will feature a real story. Yay.

Let Samus talk.      

1. No, it does not mean that you have to make up your own story. At most this would bee making up reactions, but it's not that, it's just that you have to look for it.

2. No, that wouldn't mean that it doesn't have a real story.

3. Prime's story literally needed you to look for it, via scan data. Interactive storytelling where you had to initiate the story yourself. That was a genius idea and it's still one of the best forms in th medium, if critically underused.

4. Don't be idiculosu re: Mario. You can say anything yo uwant about the storytelling, the point her is about how he's characterized. And Mario is veery clearly characterizd in all games: he's happy-go-lucky, brave, determined in the face of danger, and has fun on his adventures. Claiming he's not characterized to that degree is blatantly false.

5. What you are saying is blatantly untrue; Samus was characterized. This is not a point that bears debate. You are wrong, factually and objectively.

I do't even mind talking, if it's handled well. This wasn't.



KylieDog said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

People seem to forget something real important about Samus' portrail in the Primes series.

The reason the Prime series are a side-story is simple: it contains no character development. It's not relevant at all. To say the portrail of Samus is correct there, makes no sense. Nothing happens to the character, so how... can it tell you anything about the character, or what she's really like?

 


Actions speak louder than words.  For a silent protagonist this is expecially true.  Prime 3 did it best imo.

Action is not a story.

Some social interaction begins to tell a story. History, reflection, friendship... you need some reaction for this - a soundboard. One person at least, hell even a computer would do.   



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.