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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony: Xbox 720 and Wii 2 will beat PS4 to market

jarrod said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Dazzle said:

maybe if sony release the ps4 a few years after the x720 and wii2 then that could be considered the next gen console after those next gen consoles if you know what i mean so ps4 could have the upper hand

Mid cycle jumps rarely turn out well.  In fact, gaming's never really had one be a real mainstream success (PC Engine, CDI, 3DO, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Wonderswan, NeoGeo Pocket, N-Gage, etc, etc).

yeah midcycles don't turn out well but comparing PS4 to those you mentioned doesn't make any point


How about completely skipping next gen if it happens to begin too early and releasing PS4 as an early 9th gen console one year before XB1080 and Wii3?

It looks quite dangerous, though, and Sony should start including Move with every PS3 asap to avoid being left behind on motion controls (and to keep the entry level price low enough without losing money this won't be possible before Q3 2011 in the best case).

 

I think that's a risky proposition.  Better would even be a Wii-like upgrade path if need be (upclock/rebrand the PS3 chipset and advance along non-linear interface/network paths), but PS4 really does need to be there when everyone else is at the table.

Acxtually, if Wii 2's just a generational upgrade (putting within 360/PS3 territory) that sort of move might not be a bad idea for Sony.  They certainly benefitted by getting 360 ports this gen, same could happen next gen with Wii 2.  Even better if Microsoft goes for an (expensive) full generation shift, they'd probably get locked out of most ports.  Of course MS could always do the same for Xbox 3 (and I wouldn't rule that out either).

Didn't think about this option, well I must admit your idea looks better than mine!   

Edit: and what Snake pointed out about the worst and most costly part of Cell and BD development finally over, IMVHO makes your option even easier to do, although for the same reasons beefing PS4 up more won't be difficult and expensive like PS3 was at launch.



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Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Dazzle said:

maybe if sony release the ps4 a few years after the x720 and wii2 then that could be considered the next gen console after those next gen consoles if you know what i mean so ps4 could have the upper hand

Mid cycle jumps rarely turn out well.  In fact, gaming's never really had one be a real mainstream success (PC Engine, CDI, 3DO, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Wonderswan, NeoGeo Pocket, N-Gage, etc, etc).

yeah midcycles don't turn out well but comparing PS4 to those you mentioned doesn't make any point


How about completely skipping next gen if it happens to begin too early and releasing PS4 as an early 9th gen console one year before XB1080 and Wii3?

It looks quite dangerous, though, and Sony should start including Move with every PS3 asap to avoid being left behind on motion controls (and to keep the entry level price low enough without losing money this won't be possible before Q3 2011 in the best case).

 

I think that's a risky proposition.  Better would even be a Wii-like upgrade path if need be (upclock/rebrand the PS3 chipset and advance along non-linear interface/network paths), but PS4 really does need to be there when everyone else is at the table.

Acxtually, if Wii 2's just a generational upgrade (putting within 360/PS3 territory) that sort of move might not be a bad idea for Sony.  They certainly benefitted by getting 360 ports this gen, same could happen next gen with Wii 2.  Even better if Microsoft goes for an (expensive) full generation shift, they'd probably get locked out of most ports.  Of course MS could always do the same for Xbox 3 (and I wouldn't rule that out either).

PS3 would fair well with the Wii like upgrade as the other competitors will have btter graphics at a near price.

 

it isn't like Wii where you are the cheapest and other are way more expensive.

 

and its not because PS3 had generational change that it got posts,it was because its architecture was new and also there was another console that was selling good.

 

PS4 will do well and have a good price now that blu-ray price has been sorted out.

Yeah, the boutique architecture (which also helped drive the price) was really PS3's undoing.  PS2 had a similar plan and it succeeded, but I think if anything, PS3's proven a razor/blades model that relies on pushing 100 million hardware units is just not a sound plan.

CELL's ideal for scalability though, so there's a pretty good option there for going the "Wii-like" route for PS4.  And Blu-ray should be fine for a format going forward too, in fact I expect PS4, XB3 and W2 will all use it.



jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Dazzle said:

maybe if sony release the ps4 a few years after the x720 and wii2 then that could be considered the next gen console after those next gen consoles if you know what i mean so ps4 could have the upper hand

Mid cycle jumps rarely turn out well.  In fact, gaming's never really had one be a real mainstream success (PC Engine, CDI, 3DO, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Wonderswan, NeoGeo Pocket, N-Gage, etc, etc).

yeah midcycles don't turn out well but comparing PS4 to those you mentioned doesn't make any point


How about completely skipping next gen if it happens to begin too early and releasing PS4 as an early 9th gen console one year before XB1080 and Wii3?

It looks quite dangerous, though, and Sony should start including Move with every PS3 asap to avoid being left behind on motion controls (and to keep the entry level price low enough without losing money this won't be possible before Q3 2011 in the best case).

 

I think that's a risky proposition.  Better would even be a Wii-like upgrade path if need be (upclock/rebrand the PS3 chipset and advance along non-linear interface/network paths), but PS4 really does need to be there when everyone else is at the table.

Acxtually, if Wii 2's just a generational upgrade (putting within 360/PS3 territory) that sort of move might not be a bad idea for Sony.  They certainly benefitted by getting 360 ports this gen, same could happen next gen with Wii 2.  Even better if Microsoft goes for an (expensive) full generation shift, they'd probably get locked out of most ports.  Of course MS could always do the same for Xbox 3 (and I wouldn't rule that out either).

PS3 would fair well with the Wii like upgrade as the other competitors will have btter graphics at a near price.

 

it isn't like Wii where you are the cheapest and other are way more expensive.

 

and its not because PS3 had generational change that it got posts,it was because its architecture was new and also there was another console that was selling good.

 

PS4 will do well and have a good price now that blu-ray price has been sorted out.

Yeah, the boutique architecture (which also helped drive the price) was really PS3's undoing.

yes but it would still have been alot lower if not for maybe $299 which would have just decimated the competition

 PS2 had a similar plan and it succeeded, but I think if anything, PS3's proven a razor/blades model that relies on pushing 100 million hardware units is just not a sound plan.

we are not discusing the razor blade business here

yes even if blu-ray would have been there still SONY would have used the razor blade model but it would have beenalot and i mean alot cheaper.

and the massive razor blade model used was not for PS3 to push 100million units but to psuh blu-ray.

and the razor blade model for PS2 ended pretty early,alot and alot earlier then the 100million mark so they were making heavy profit on consoles itself

CELL's ideal for scalability though, so there's a pretty good option there for going the "Wii-like" route for PS4.  

no they wouldn't go for a wii like route,they could go for a lesser powerful but nowhere near the little upgradation Wii had.

and they can easoly put out better CELL version on PS4 for a low cost as research and production will already be cheap

And Blu-ray should be fine for a format going forward too, in fact I expect PS4, XB3 and W2 will all use it.

obviously they will use it.what else have they got out there.

don't know about Wii2 as nintendo don't like paying royalties



By "Wii-like" I just mean using the same core and building on that.  I'm not saying a 1:1 upgrade path, though even just that (50% overclocking, 4x RAM increase) would be a pretty big jump for PS3.  Obviously a PS3 based take would include more SPUs and probably new graphics chip entirely (hopefully emulating RSX for backcompat).  So more like GBA to DS or NES to SNES than GC to Wii in practice.

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2.  Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray... whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee), but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).



jarrod said:

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2

more like GC disc

 Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray...

again bullshit

whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee),

but will need to pay other BD fees

but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).

not full BD based

it will be like GC Disc was like DVD but inferior

and PS4 will probably have 500gb-1000gb Blu-ray so i don't think Wii will have that



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Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2

more like GC disc

 Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray...

again bullshit

whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee),

but will need to pay other BD fees

but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).

not full BD based

it will be like GC Disc was like DVD but inferior

and PS4 will probably have 500gb-1000gb Blu-ray so i don't think Wii will have that

GC was just mini-DVD.  Wii uses DVD.  Wii 2 will use BD.  This isn't rocket science, it's just the natural path.

And Panasonic is one of the top four takers for BD royalties, along with Sony, Phillips and Warner.  They have and close relationship with Nintendo, and they developed the GC/Wii optical drives and piracy protections for them.  Wii 2 will also probably put more BD drives into homes than any other single system...



jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2

more like GC disc

 Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray...

again bullshit

whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee),

but will need to pay other BD fees

but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).

not full BD based

it will be like GC Disc was like DVD but inferior

and PS4 will probably have 500gb-1000gb Blu-ray so i don't think Wii will have that

GC was just mini-DVD.

it was like mini-dvd but it didn't have all the patents of DVD or mini-dvd

Wii uses DVD.  Wii 2 will use BD.  This isn't rocket science, it's just the natural path.

what stops it from using mini-BD and without patents

and don't use that rocket science line again,its too cliche

And Panasonic is one of the top four takers for BD royalties, along with Sony, Phillips and Warner.

it is one of the top 3 takers

They have and close relationship with Nintendo, and they developed the GC/Wii optical drives and piracy protections for them.

yes they have a close relationship with nintendo

but the piracy protection didn't work much.

 Wii 2 will also probably put more BD drives into homes than any other single system...

nobody knows that.

probably 720 would be the winner next gen with 200million sales trumping all.

the probability statement doesn't work always





Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2

more like GC disc

 Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray...

again bullshit

whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee),

but will need to pay other BD fees

but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).

not full BD based

it will be like GC Disc was like DVD but inferior

and PS4 will probably have 500gb-1000gb Blu-ray so i don't think Wii will have that

GC was just mini-DVD.

it was like mini-dvd but it didn't have all the patents of DVD or mini-dvd

Wii uses DVD.  Wii 2 will use BD.  This isn't rocket science, it's just the natural path.

what stops it from using mini-BD and without patents

and don't use that rocket science line again,its too cliche

And Panasonic is one of the top four takers for BD royalties, along with Sony, Phillips and Warner.

it is one of the top 3 takers

They have and close relationship with Nintendo, and they developed the GC/Wii optical drives and piracy protections for them.

yes they have a close relationship with nintendo

but the piracy protection didn't work much.

 Wii 2 will also probably put more BD drives into homes than any other single system...

nobody knows that.

probably 720 would be the winner next gen with 200million sales trumping all.

the probability statement doesn't work always



Oh sure, it could be mini-BD, but after all the complaints with GameCube's format ceiling from devs, I doubt Nintendo's going to try and repeat that scenario.  They'll want a full sized format, plus they'll need a full sized drive for Wii backwards compatibility.

If you want to get more technical, Panasonic is actually the top taker for Blu-ray royalties.  I didn't say that originally as I knew it'd set you off though. ;)

And as of now, you're right in that we have way too little info to really predict next gen's market leader.  Best guess now would be Nintendo, simply because they're market leader now.  But that could change, without question.  In 2004 everyone figured PS3 would dominate too.  If Wii 2 sells just half what Wii does though, it could still even be the device that puts the most BD drives into homes... from that perspective, it'd actually be in the BDA's best interests to try and convince Nintendo to allow movie playback and maybe cut them a deal on the fees...



jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
jarrod said:

And Blu-ray will likely be customized for Wii 2

more like GC disc

 Panasonic makes all Nintendo's optical drives, and they're one of the biggest IP holders (and thus royalty takers) on Blu-ray...

again bullshit

whatever Wii 2 uses, it might not play BD movies (so Nintendo can avoid that fee),

but will need to pay other BD fees

but it'll definitely be BD based (for storage capacity and copy protection).

not full BD based

it will be like GC Disc was like DVD but inferior

and PS4 will probably have 500gb-1000gb Blu-ray so i don't think Wii will have that

GC was just mini-DVD.

it was like mini-dvd but it didn't have all the patents of DVD or mini-dvd

Wii uses DVD.  Wii 2 will use BD.  This isn't rocket science, it's just the natural path.

what stops it from using mini-BD and without patents

and don't use that rocket science line again,its too cliche

And Panasonic is one of the top four takers for BD royalties, along with Sony, Phillips and Warner.

it is one of the top 3 takers

They have and close relationship with Nintendo, and they developed the GC/Wii optical drives and piracy protections for them.

yes they have a close relationship with nintendo

but the piracy protection didn't work much.

 Wii 2 will also probably put more BD drives into homes than any other single system...

nobody knows that.

probably 720 would be the winner next gen with 200million sales trumping all.

the probability statement doesn't work always



If you want to get more technical, Panasonic is actually the top taker for Blu-ray royalties.  I didn't say that originally as I knew it'd set you off though. ;)

nobody knows that

And as of now, you're right in that we have way too little info to really predict next gen's market leader.  Best guess now would be Nintendo, simply because they're market leader now.

not really,they could be at the top like 360 is over PS3 but it won't be much as they don't have the btter brand in all areas like the PS2.mostly casual

unless with the brand they do something unique again

 But that could change, without question.  In 2004 everyone figured PS3 would dominate too.  If Wii 2 sells just half what Wii does though, it could still even be the device that puts the most BD drives into homes... from that perspective,

not really as Wii half sales won't be more than PS3 sales.

PS3 is near half as Wii so it has psuhed the most BD's and wii2 sales won't be the first

it'd actually be in the BDA's best interests to try and convince Nintendo to allow movie playback and maybe cut them a deal on the fees...

again you are really stuck on ur theory that BD needs everyone to put their format to be succesfull,they are already succesful.

now its other choice whether to use BD quality or go with inferior thing





Solid_Snake4RD said:

jarrod said:

 If you want to get more technical, Panasonic is actually the top taker for Blu-ray royalties.  I didn't say that originally as I knew it'd set you off though. ;)

nobody knows that

And as of now, you're right in that we have way too little info to really predict next gen's market leader.  Best guess now would be Nintendo, simply because they're market leader now.

not really,they could be at the top like 360 is over PS3 but it won't be much as they don't have the btter brand in all areas like the PS2.mostly casual

unless with the brand they do something unique again

 But that could change, without question.  In 2004 everyone figured PS3 would dominate too.  If Wii 2 sells just half what Wii does though, it could still even be the device that puts the most BD drives into homes... from that perspective,

not really as Wii half sales won't be more than PS3 sales.

PS3 is near half as Wii so it has psuhed the most BD's and wii2 sales won't be the first

it'd actually be in the BDA's best interests to try and convince Nintendo to allow movie playback and maybe cut them a deal on the fees...

again you are really stuck on ur theory that BD needs everyone to put their format to be succesfull,they are already succesful.

now its other choice whether to use BD quality or go with inferior thing

 

PS3's just under half Wii sales, though you're right it may not stay that way.  Still Wii is huge, the brand is incredibly valuable right now (as are Nintendo's brands in general) and it's successor has a lot of potential... if Nintendo can get potentially 50-100m more Blu-Ray players in homes worldwide with a Wii successor, there's something worth negotiating from both sides of the table.  I could definitely see a deal being made, especially with how close Nintendo and Panasonic are.

On the other hand, Nintendo doesn't get any cut from BD movies, so they may view them as competitive and not want to provide support.  That's chiefly why Wii doesn't have CD/DVD playback, though there were talks originally to maybe do a premium model with support (possibly similar to the Panasonic Q).