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Forums - General Discussion - Krugman: Spend Now, Save Later

Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe

Seriously?

Please quote the rest of my statement.

Please provide a few examples that government intervention in the private sector was the only way out of the mess.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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mrstickball said:
Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe

Seriously?

Please quote the rest of my statement.

Please provide a few examples that government intervention in the private sector was the only way out of the mess.


The great Depression, nothing the private sector could do would have been big enough, the gear up for the war was led by the government, and it was that war footing that pulled us out.



axt113 said:
mrstickball said:
Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe

Seriously?

Please quote the rest of my statement.

Please provide a few examples that government intervention in the private sector was the only way out of the mess.


The great Depression, nothing the private sector could do would have been big enough, the gear up for the war was led by the government, and it was that war footing that pulled us out.

Ah, but as soon as the war ended, GDP dropped 25% in a matter of months.

Had Bretton Woods not of increased American exports by 300% in a year, I believe that we wouldn't be having this conversation, as exports helped ensure we had a glut of jobs after WW2.

I'd also mention that the reasons behind the Great Depression were mostly government related...Smoot-Hawley and the federal reserve's monetary policy caused wealth to be destroyed...Not a great sign of governments being the greatest when it comes to keeping the economy afloat.

I digress, the Great Depression is one of, if not the only, examples of government spending helping us get out of tough times. However, again, I will cite the correlation of the rapid rise of American exports after WW2 as being a huge factor in saving us, post-WW2, just like how Smoot-Hawley destroyed our economy, by diminishing exports by 66% over a 3 year period.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

I find it funny that Akvod thinks saved money is still stuffed in matresses or buried in the backyard or something...



Kasz216 said:

I find it funny that Akvod thinks saved money is still stuffed in matresses or buried in the backyard or something...

It can be building a cash reserve in a bank, via savings.  However, if there isn't consumption or demand for new goods or services, then how exactly does one decide to lend money and pay back sufficient returns to pay back people who save more?



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mrstickball said:
Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe

Seriously?

Please quote the rest of my statement.

Please provide a few examples that government intervention in the private sector was the only way out of the mess.

So, just to be clear, you are saying that the innermost quotation was present for purely rhetorical purposes?  (i.e. you agree that the private market has had & is prone to having periodic catastrophe.)  Unless you say otherwise I will assume the answer is yes



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

By the way, let's talk something practical and real here, where people can put their money where their mouth is.  If someone here is able to find me relevant employment, I am prepared to pay, over a prolonged period of time, a percentage of the money I bring in, to the person who does it.  This needs to be meaningful work here, and not just you will get me some minimum wage job, and you get half my money.  I am talking about a starting point and continuation to where I can make it.  I am prepared to work here, and do what is needed.  I am up for changing myself to.

Anyhow, I am not sure anyone would take me up on this, but will ask.  Anyhow, here is a point to ponder: If everything is THAT easy to get going, and all you need is for the markets to fix themselves, and things would be ok, how come there aren't any employment agencies that are based around being paid by people looking for work AFTER they find a job?  How come they either have the employer pay, or they have people pay them for work they do (like writing resumes), but not the later?

Could it be that there is potential for ever increasing numbers of people formally in the middle class to no longer get to a place where they can make it, in a marketplace, because the economy can't sustain growth in such a way that leads to sufficient employment?  If that is the case, I am curious about institutions on this.

Anyhow, if anyone wants to tackle what I describe about my situation, I am up for discussing this.  Maybe you can get lucky here.  If no one sends me a message, I will have to say, flat out, you join the list of a mass of other individuals who have no clue about this economy and what can be done, and your only interest here is to make yourself feel you are right in this debate without whatever your believing having to manifest itself as valid.



mrstickball said:
Final-Fan said:
But the implication of your argument that government should NOT intervene in that way is that it should do nothing beyond manipulating interest rates, which, considering they are currently at zero, would be doing nothing, which is a recipe for disaster IMO.  The private market is proven to be prone to periodic catastrophe, and the only one that can do anything about it IMO is the government.  Do you disagree with any of the points in my post, and how so? 

Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe, and that government intrvention via spending was the only way to solve the mess?

So, assuming that the other conversation has concluded, I will continue. 

I'm not saying that government intervention is the only solution.  But the only alternative to gov't internvention is to let the private sector sort things out naturally, which history shows is pretty painful. 

Unless I'm missing something there is private market and government and nothing else (beyond grey area between the two).  So by definition the only option other than letting the depression run its natural course is government intervention. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

axt113 said:

http://bonddad.blogspot.com/2010/07/no-really-austerity-doesnt-work.html

 

What is the other option besides cutting back, when everyone was maxing out their credit cards?



mrstickball said:
axt113 said:
mrstickball said:
Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Could you provide examples in the US that the private market has had periodic catastrophe

Seriously?

Please quote the rest of my statement.

Please provide a few examples that government intervention in the private sector was the only way out of the mess.


The great Depression, nothing the private sector could do would have been big enough, the gear up for the war was led by the government, and it was that war footing that pulled us out.

Ah, but as soon as the war ended, GDP dropped 25% in a matter of months.

Had Bretton Woods not of increased American exports by 300% in a year, I believe that we wouldn't be having this conversation, as exports helped ensure we had a glut of jobs after WW2.

I'd also mention that the reasons behind the Great Depression were mostly government related...Smoot-Hawley and the federal reserve's monetary policy caused wealth to be destroyed...Not a great sign of governments being the greatest when it comes to keeping the economy afloat.

I digress, the Great Depression is one of, if not the only, examples of government spending helping us get out of tough times. However, again, I will cite the correlation of the rapid rise of American exports after WW2 as being a huge factor in saving us, post-WW2, just like how Smoot-Hawley destroyed our economy, by diminishing exports by 66% over a 3 year period.


Well first off, that's what you get when you let the GOP have too much control, bad economic policies, smoot and hawley were both repubs, and now you want repubs back in control, after what happened under Bush and the GOP congress, makes me wonder about the intelligence of most GOP supporters.

Also, while Government action did play a role, you're ignoring all the private market reasons for the depression,  poor banking structure, over-leveraging, Animal spirits in the market causing people to overreact making the situation far worse.