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Forums - General Discussion - Common misconceptions about Christianity.

FaRmLaNd said:
richardhutnik said:
FaRmLaNd said:

The concept that someone will have eternal punishment for finite limited sin is morally bankrupt.

Any God that supports eccessive punishment is worthy of contempt.

And why is this the only way to understand what the Christian faith is about?  Is not the concept of there being eternal consequences for certain actions not appropriate?  Say that eventually all those who reject will be annihilated and no longer exist.  Does that fit as more just?  Or do you place the people who reject in a spot for all eternity that say is dark and like a trash heap?  Or, do you have individuals, no matter what, end up wandering around and being in front of God forever?

Answering my question with a question is not really answering my question at all.

I do not think its acceptable, or moral, or just to be tortured eternally for finite sin. I would rather non-existence. If hell was non-existence (and I've heard some interpretations that it is) I wouldn't mind.

Well, maybe it is that.  Fires do consume, and it is presumptive to believe that humans can be immortal on their own without help (and if Hell is something that is separation from God, then how does the mortal being remain sustained?).  The need for Hell to be a place of suffering forever comes out of Western Christian thought and what is seen as "just".  Beyond that though, I think there is a need to go through cognitively what is here.   God has every right to do any with He likes (I use He there, because we are talking Christian context here), because all belongs to God.  If it be suffering, or whatever, that is what it is.  One doesn't even have to know or understand this, it either is or is not.

By the way, not minding non-existence is worth pondering over.  Make the not-existing a reality in your mind and make it personal.  I am not sure that it is an "I wouldn't mind".  It might be preferable to suffering forever, but I don't really see it as an "I wouldn't mind" state either.



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"God has every right to do any with He likes (I use He there, because we are talking Christian context here), because all belongs to God.  If it be suffering, or whatever, that is what it is.  One doesn't even have to know or understand this, it either is or is not."

And that is one my major issues with Christianity. As Hitchens would put it, its a celestial dictatorship of both the mind and the body. It makes sense in a way, that seperation from God could mean non-existence, and that as I said is no-where near as bad as eternal suffering in hellfire in the way some more malicious theologians have described it.

Of course I wont mind actually isn't an apt description because if one ceases to exist they wont have a mind any longer.

My other issue with religion is, that depending on where you were born you generally are born into another theology and since so many cultures are dominated by one theology it is in many ways difficult to say which one is and isn't right (or if any of them are) because if say an American Christian was instead born in India they'd be arguing that Hinduism is the proper faith etc.

EDIT, feel free to disregard my later paragraphs as I see I inadvertaintly went away from discussing Christianity as the OP wanted. I do no wish to derail this thread and make it just another atheism vs theism thread.



richardhutnik said:
Final-Fan said:

I am very, very disappointed, richardhutnik. 

You are taking abuse hurled on a YouTube video's comments as evidence of systematic oppression against the religious?  I'm not sure where to begin. 

Take YouTube as proof that it is human nature for people ot mock and ridicule things they disagree with.  If people had their druthers they would even consider taking Rush Limbaugh out to be shot, and same goes for the other side.  This level of hatred doesn't go away when you remove religion from the mix either.

This is not about repression, it is about human nature and how people will act in hateful ways for things they disagree with.

As for the backlash, I can tell by the numbers of thumbs up or down regarding it that it was negative.  And how the heck did I find out about it?  Well, apparently it went viral, because KnowYourMeme.com (Rocketbook folks) picked up on it and did an entire episode over it:

But ... this doesn't mesh at all with your earlier post: 

Pure bile, because of ONE line it says about scientists, and asked how magnets worked (saying we really don't know).  You see, in this modern and secular society, you are NOT to question the limitations of science.  You are NOT to be religions.  You are not to see wonder in the mundane.  You are also not to question the high priests who are the architects all around us, that being the scientists.  Nope, don't do it, you will be subject to ridicule.  And all along, no one can figure out why people can't be happy, and why the use of drugs for mood management is at an all-time high.  Nope, just reduce men to machines, and determinstic processes, and figure it out.  And then have it so that you have a welfare system that is less humane than the DMV clean up all the abandoned humanity and medicate them into silence.

- Who says it was all or even mostly due to this one line?  Totally baseless claim that you now seem to be abandoning. 

- In your diatribe about religion being ostracized, and science being considered sacred and holy, its practitioners being "high priests", you depicted a much more systematic and severe situation than people mocking people they disagree with.  This amounts, in fact, to a complete change in your position, unless you were utterly misrepresenting your opinion earlier. 

- You also do not even attempt to defend your assertions that either alleged repression of religion, or people mocking other people, are the cause of widespread depression, drug abuse, neglectful government bureaucracy, etc. etc.  Not that it was defensible...



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I find it really funny that some people are so misguided they take little snipits from verses to try and prove God is evil or that the Bible is false. I also find it funny that people think God had no right to kill off what he considered evil and give Israel things. Or punish kings and the Jews themselves when they slipped up.

Think of the earth as a little child. That child craps on your food and tells you to eat shit and go straight to hell. Do you put up with that or do you punish the child?

Why is it wrong for God to punish the child when you yourself would punish the child. Just because God loves everyone on earth doesn't mean we are free to do anything we please.

Think of it a second. If you created a universe and a planet then created intelligent life. You expect that intelligent life to serve you or at least respect your rules. Like your dog you expect your dog to go for a dump outside if the dog goes inside you rub his nose in it and punish him.You would also favour the creations who abided by your rules and who treated you well while you would disfavour the ingrates who mocked your laws and were plain ingrateful.

Fact is God is perfectly justified in doing what ever the heck he wants, no he did not directly contradict himself. He is God he created you and everything around you where do you get the balls to say "God you should behave this way because we think your laws are bad and well we think your unfair".

We are God's children and like our children when they misbehave they must be punished or set straight. If you never teach your child or punish them how would they ever do anything good? We are God's children and when we sin if God chooses to punish us it is his God given wait a sec thats sorta funny. He has every right to do as he pleases to any of us!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

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Many people who were in many cases born in countries dominated by one theology all persist that theirs is the right theology over others. Add on top of that, all of the dead theologies that had people that thought just the same way in their time (and yet people laugh off thor for example now). Many theologies also existed long before monotheism (just being in the spirit of this thread) aswell.

I ask the question of religious people in this thread (who happen to be mainly Christian because thats what this thread is about), how do you reconcile that different cultures both dead and existing in many cases have/had different dominant religions and all of them think/thought that theirs is the correct faith at the time. I found that very difficult to reconcile intellectually when I was a Christian.

Of course I'd assume that faith, is the answer. But seemingly every different theist from every theology has just as much faith as the next and they all claim to have personal experiences with their God/Gods.

Does this huge number of active and dead religions weigh heavily on any of the Christians in this thread?



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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

garvey0 said:
FaRmLaNd said:

Many people who were in many cases born in countries dominated by one theology all persist that theirs is the right theology over others. Add on top of that, all of the dead theologies that had people that thought just the same way in their time (and yet people laugh off thor for example now). Many theologies also existed long before monotheism (just being in the spirit of this thread) aswell.

I ask the question of religious people in this thread (who happen to be mainly Christian because thats what this thread is about), how do you reconcile that different cultures both dead and existing in many cases have/had different dominant religions and all of them think/thought that theirs is the correct faith at the time. I found that very difficult to reconcile intellectually when I was a Christian.

Of course I'd assume that faith, is the answer. But seemingly every different theist from every theology has just as much faith as the next and they all claim to have personal experiences with their God/Gods.

Does this huge number of active and dead religions weigh heavily on any of the Christians in this thread?

My main answer to you is very simple:  If one of those dead religions had been true, then I very strongly believe that God (or goddess, or gods, depending on the religion) would have preserved it and not allowed it to die out.  I can't imagine that God (or gods or goddesses) would give a true communication to humans through a religion and then allow it to be completely forgotten.

As far as existing religions go, I'll say this.  I became a believer in God about 3 and a half years ago.  I did not immediately go to Christianity.  I feel that God wants us to worship Him according to His true character, and in order to find out which religious text (if any) described who God actually is I listened a huge number religious texts in audio.  The God that I had experienced was perfectly characterized in the Bible.  Bare in mind that I was very unfamiliar with the Bible, nor was I even subconsciously in line with its principals or characterization of God (for the most part, and I did examine myself fairly.)

I don't take God's character lightly.  I was sure to explore every alternative with an open mind and an open heart.  Without an open mind and an open heart, the believers of Jesus' time would have never accepted Him.

 

On top of this, I will provide another very strong evidence (proof in my opinion) for Christianity's validity.  All of the 10 of the 11 apostles who claimed to see and speak with the resurrected Jesus were martyred (john, the brother of james, was the only one who died a natural death - and he still faced hardships due to his claims.)  These men were not acting based on a religion that someone had told them about, they were acting based on something (the resurrected Jesus) that they claimed to have saw.  They either truly saw Jesus resurrected, or they had created a lie.  I find it very unlikely that 10 men would be willing to go to their graves based on a story that they had made up.  Also we have paul who claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus on the occasion where he was struck blind.  He lived a difficult life and spent a great deal of time in prison before he was eventually put to death.  Again, I don't believe he would have gone through all that for the sake of a vision that he made up.

Also, we have the fact that Christianity was heavily persecuted for the first 300 years of its existence yet it grew like crazy.  No other religion that I'm aware of began in such a way.  Most religions grew in their infant years by governmental force.  Christianity was exactly the opposite, it grew in spite of a government that was very hostile towards it.  It did not become accepted by the government until the year 313 AD.  Christianity continues to grow in countries like china in a very similar fashion.  Pbs, which is hardly a pro-Christian channel, did a documentary called "Jesus in china" on Christianity's amazing growth in the officially atheist nation of china which you can watch for free on their website (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/video/video_index.html) I believe that in order for the religion to have grown in the way that it did, the hand of God had to have been the driving force.

Very good post.

The early history of Christianity is miraculous in itself and testifies of its divine origin.