Userbase may not increase sales but it can easily limit them and the 17 million GTAIV sales come from Take-2 reporting 17 million copies shipped and 5 million copies of Red Dead Redemption have been shipped.

Nvmnd.

"Userbase may not increase sales but it can easily limit them"

That's not the claim made. Plus that only applies when there are just a few million systems, like with Shenmue on the Dreamcast at launch. The claim made here is that the next game would sell better solely due to more systems. That user had obviously never actually compared sequels to userbase sales.

GTA 4 was the first GTA game of this generation, its not fair to compare it to the last GTA game of last gen to the first one.

If you were gonna compare GTA 4 to GTA 3 then its more fair.

GTA 3 is at 11 mill

GTA 4 is at 13 mill

We can compare the next GTA game to GTA Vice City.

On HD consoles it does.

If the next GTA will make it this generation (and I believe it will), sales on PS3 and 360 will explode.

If GTA IV came out today an opening of 4m on 360 and 3m on PS3 would have been guaranteed, a bigger drop in the next week, but still bigger than the current 2nd week sales. Now the important part: The legs would have stayed the same or maybe even a bit increased. No way it would sell only as much as back in 2008.

Same goes for Halo 3. Would have sold pretty much the same amount as Modern Warfare 2 on 360. Around 14-15m lifetime.

You know that, I know that. The point was to address those that thought it was going to sell a lot more just because it was GTA in HD.

Most of you are reading the GTA IV part without the context. Read the WHOLE thing I wrote.

"If the next GTA will make it this generation (and I believe it will), sales on PS3 and 360 will explode."

Exceptg sales of IV were supposed to explode. So claiming userbase as an excuse it didn't ist just asinine, especialy when you have no actual numbers to back you up, just assumptions of what might have happened. Try looking at actual game sales and userbases, even if it's just for the HD systems.

I'm wondering if this isn't just some mass attempt to discredit this argument by trying to obfuscate it by changing the subject. All you're proving is you can't argue a point so try to pick the irrelevant parts (since the total sales of GTA IV is not the topic here).

Then what is your point, summarise it for me, the whole block of text in the OP screamed bias to me.

Summarise your point in 1 paragraph pleae

The thread title should make it clear it's not about bias, it's about facts versus assumptions. If it was bias, I would try to argue why Chrono Trigger should have a true sequel.

Plus the thread title is the summary. The article I wrote is just explaining it.

I read this reply, and all I could think was, "he typed way too much for you to just respond to that".

Knight, this thread really shows the depth of your mind. It is hard to follow your thought process, because it makes the most sense to you, the creator. I will say this though, the best part was when you explained the faults of this line of thinking on a game by game basis (Madworld, Dead Space, etc).

I agree with the overall idea though. What enables these titles to sell isn't so clear cut, and just copying and pasting (if you are a diferent company) doesn't work either. Bits and pieces cannot create an entire package. Plus, in sequels, te values that people want in these games may change.

Off-topic: All this "mature" stuff needs to stop.