By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - EA'S online passes suck! Dont buy their new games!!!

Kasz216 said:



That's a really silly arguement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, once again i'll direct people to this...

 

 

Your arguement is "If not enough people are willing to boycott it, it's clearly not wrong."

 

No it isn't.

Based on that logic... people are in the minority about being pissed about the BP Spill in the gulf.  People are in the minority at wanting gas companies in general to not gouge people... people who are against child labor are in the minority...I can go on and on about shit the majority of people think was wrong but didn't successfully boycott.

 

People aren't in the minority about being pissed off because of the BP spill. However they are powerless in terms of doing anything about it in most cases as they aren't usually the direct consumers of BP fuel. People who were against child labour have had that practice stopped. People can A. Buy B. Not buy the product. Noones rights are being infringed its just a change in the terms of sale.

 

People will swallow a lot of crap... and be unhappy about it, because they want what they want.   The fact that you think people shouldn't be upset that consumer rights keep getting more and more erroded by Videogame companies si just... well stupid.

 

Its just stupid? Thats just incredibly poor logic.

 

Video Game companies already hold a lot of special priveldeges most manufacturers don't get.  They want even more... I mean name one other field where this would be an acceptbale practice to force people to pay you on the used market.

 

Such as? What special priviledges do they have?

 

Sales will be lower though... every major branch of economics tells us that about the reaction hurting the used market when it comes to durable goods... and this is the second part of why your thesis is flawed.  They don't really know.  I mean any economist could tell you it's a bad idea.  They claim they're losing tons to piracy, even though the research doesn't show this... even in very anti-pirating countries like the US... run by the government.

 

Does it hurt the buyer? I don't believe it would hurt buyer. It helps used buyers in two ways, the first being a lower cost for those uninterested in online play. Thats a significant proportion of the market and especially the used market becaused multiplayer can be time sensitive with people wanting to play with their friends whilst they are all still interested in the title. The second is that it allows the purchaser to graduate his/her level of interest rather than paying the whole single multiplayer cost at once whether both features are desired or not.

 

Does it hurt the seller in the used market? Yes definately. However it would only in effect be a few dollars in real trade in values as the Gamestop trade value reflects the long term discounted cost price where features like multiplayer are less valuable. In the short term given Gamestops large margins they would be take the majority of the hit as they could not sell the game for $50-55 as is typical but for a lesser amount such as $40-45 depending on loyalty card.

 

They point to these, ignoring the real culprits are rising dev costs and poor decisions.  No doubt when sales go down they'll keep their online plan... and instead blame piracy for the further decline, and try and put in more draconian members.  With most people following off the cliff.

 

When sales go down they will keep their plan? No that doesn't logically make sense. Given the fact that its tendency is to increase, therefore they must have had some success in an industry sense or more publishers wouldn't be adopting this tactic.

 

 

I personally don't see its relevance. EA are not preventing the sale of used goods, they are simply incentivising the sale of new goods in the initial sale period and beyond that they are monetising some of the sale of the used goods.

 



Tease.

Around the Network
Squilliam said:
Kasz216 said:
Squilliam said:

So why should I take this OMG gamer rage outburst any more seriously than OMG Final Fantasy was teh ruined or similar outbursts? What reason is there for a reasonable person to take part in this outrage? From a reasonable standpoint, this is a free market where you have the option to take/leave their offer. Why do people have to get angry about everyfuckingthing and blow up like a drama queen? If you don't like it, don't buy their game. If enough people do the same then they will withdraw it and thats buyer power.  If they don't withdraw it because it works for them *gasp* then you're obviously in the minority and you can step down off your soap box.



That's a really silly arguement.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, once again i'll direct people to this...

 

Your arguement is "If not enough people are willing to boycott it, it's clearly not wrong."

No it isn't.

Based on that logic... people are in the minority about being pissed about the BP Spill in the gulf.  People are in the minority at wanting gas companies in general to not gouge people... people who are against child labor are in the minority...I can go on and on about shit the majority of people think was wrong but didn't successfully boycott.

People aren't in the minority about being pissed off because of the BP spill. However they are powerless in terms of doing anything about it in most cases as they aren't usually the direct consumers of BP fuel. People who were against child labour have had that practice stopped. People can A. Buy B. Not buy the product. Noones rights are being infringed its just a change in the terms of sale.

 

People will swallow a lot of crap... and be unhappy about it, because they want what they want.   The fact that you think people shouldn't be upset that consumer rights keep getting more and more erroded by Videogame companies si just... well stupid.

Its just stupid? Thats just incredibly poor logic.

 

Video Game companies already hold a lot of special priveldeges most manufacturers don't get.  They want even more... I mean name one other field where this would be an acceptbale practice to force people to pay you on the used market.

Such as? What special priviledges do they have?

 

Sales will be lower though... every major branch of economics tells us that about the reaction hurting the used market when it comes to durable goods... and this is the second part of why your thesis is flawed.  They don't really know.  I mean any economist could tell you it's a bad idea.  They claim they're losing tons to piracy, even though the research doesn't show this... even in very anti-pirating countries like the US... run by the government.

Does it hurt the buyer? I don't believe it would hurt buyer. It helps used buyers in two ways, the first being a lower cost for those uninterested in online play. Thats a significant proportion of the market and especially the used market becaused multiplayer can be time sensitive with people wanting to play with their friends whilst they are all still interested in the title. The second is that it allows the purchaser to graduate his/her level of interest rather than paying the whole single multiplayer cost at once whether both features are desired or not.

Does it hurt the seller in the used market? Yes definately. However it would only in effect be a few dollars in real trade in values as the Gamestop trade value reflects the long term discounted cost price where features like multiplayer are less valuable. In the short term given Gamestops large margins they would be take the majority of the hit as they could not sell the game for $50-55 as is typical but for a lesser amount such as $40-45 depending on loyalty card.

 

They point to these, ignoring the real culprits are rising dev costs and poor decisions.  No doubt when sales go down they'll keep their online plan... and instead blame piracy for the further decline, and try and put in more draconian members.  With most people following off the cliff.

When sales go down they will keep their plan? No that doesn't logically make sense. Given the fact that its tendency is to increase, therefore they must have had some success in an industry sense or more publishers wouldn't be adopting this tactic.

I personally don't see its relevance. EA are not preventing the sale of used goods, they are simply incentivising the sale of new goods in the initial sale period and beyond that they are monetising some of the sale of the used goods.

Your quoting didn't really work here, and I don't feel like deconstructing it.

In anycase for the last part.... it's completely relvent.

They ARE damaging the used sales.  By making the product be bought back for less and making the used costs be exactly the same to the consumer.  So Gamestop charges 10 dollars less, and offers less money to the people trading it in.

That in turn means less people are willing to trade games in.  Which means less people are willing to buy games... which hurts.  Any attempt to hamper the used market hurts.



Squilliam said:
Does it hurt the seller in the used market? Yes definately. However it would only in effect be a few dollars in real trade in values as the Gamestop trade value reflects the long term discounted cost price where features like multiplayer are less valuable. In the short term given Gamestops large margins they would be take the majority of the hit as they could not sell the game for $50-55 as is typical but for a lesser amount such as $40-45 depending on loyalty card.

When sales go down they will keep their plan? No that doesn't logically make sense. Given the fact that its tendency is to increase, therefore they must have had some success in an industry sense or more publishers wouldn't be adopting this tactic.

All this is going to do is depress the value of used games, both trade in value and resale value.  Gamestop is going to keep the same margin, they are just going to buy and sell these games for less than before.  It is going to hurt gamers who finance their gaming by selling games.  It is also going to hurt publishers because it is going to push the shelf price of a used game even lower, making it more attractive.

They must have had some success for other publishers to adopt this?  No, this policy hasn't even gone into effect yet.  It starts with their 2011 sports line which hasn't even been released yet, so any publisher copying this is doing it blind.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Great work EA.

Every publisher should do that.



Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
strunge said:

ssj12 said:

Sorry, I support this and Sony's push for this. I really want GameStop to suffer some and force them to actually price their used games properly instead of buying them from someone for $5 then reselling it for $45. That used game should have been like $20 tops on resale. not $45.

 

if a used game sells for $20, how much do you think they will buy them back for?  they have to buy it for an amount that allows an acceptable profit margin that offsets the loss of money on games that are bought back and then don't sell.  that's basic business 101.  the lower the sales price, the lower the buy back price. 

now, I'm okay with that.  I don't sell games back so I don't care if you want to sell a game back for only $10 so I can buy it for $20, but I am sure thaht isn't what you had in mind, which makes you completely unqualified to comment on the used game market and its pricing.


i know business and GameStop truly sucks at it. I support the retailer Play`n`Trade because they dont screw their customers. They actually pay you a decent amount for games. GameStop offered me $3 for COD3, Play`n`Trade gave me $8. So who would have screwed me, a customer, there? And Play`n`Trade put it on their shelf for $15. GameStop had a copy on their shelf for $24. Also Play`n`Trade buys and sells classic games too. I could rebuy a Dreamcast from the and multiple titles. They even have a sealed copy of Chrono Cross, for $250, in their case.

So its all about who screws over the customer. Its very obvious GameStop does. So if their drives down their prices on used games so be it. They can actually compete with good used game retailers with proper pricing.


You do realize this move also screws Play' N Trade right...


not really siince if GameStop refuses to lower so they can continue screwing their customers like they always do with their used game pricing. Say we take something like a used copy of Madden 11 PSP needs an unlock code. Play`n`trade's price is $15 and GameStop's used price is $20. The unlock costs $10. So at GameStop purchasers still pay more meaning smarter shoppers go to Play`n`Trade to get the games that require online keys because they have the better deals.

Devs win by making money off the used game market, Play`n`Trade wins because they got a new customer, GameStop loses sales due to their piss poor used game model. I see nothing but win, win, win there.

Or... Play and Trade can't afford to sell the game for $15 anymore?  Or whatever they charged for it anyway?

Play and Trades prices will be just as effected by Gamestops.  I mean, you know how buisness pricing plans are made in the buisness right?  It's based soley on price/cost ratios.


Aside from which... previously Play and Trade would give you 8 dollars... gamestop would give you 3.

Now BOTH will give you 3 dollars.  Or Play and Trade will give you 3... and gamestop will give you 1.50.

How is this Win, Win, Win?

Sure your making a higher PERCENTAGE... but your only losing when it comes to REAL benefit your losing.


Play`N`Trade bases the purchase of a used game by inventory. So actually their prices ARE NOT based on GameStop's pricing. So it doesnt matter if you were trading a brand new game that was just released. If they have dozens of copies, they will pay you less then the last person who traded it in.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Around the Network
ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:

Or... Play and Trade can't afford to sell the game for $15 anymore?  Or whatever they charged for it anyway?

Play and Trades prices will be just as effected by Gamestops.  I mean, you know how buisness pricing plans are made in the buisness right?  It's based soley on price/cost ratios.


Aside from which... previously Play and Trade would give you 8 dollars... gamestop would give you 3.

Now BOTH will give you 3 dollars.  Or Play and Trade will give you 3... and gamestop will give you 1.50.

How is this Win, Win, Win?

Sure your making a higher PERCENTAGE... but your only losing when it comes to REAL benefit your losing.


Play`N`Trade bases the purchase of a used game by inventory. So actually their prices ARE NOT based on GameStop's pricing. So it doesnt matter if you were trading a brand new game that was just released. If they have dozens of copies, they will pay you less then the last person who traded it in.

I think you missed the point.  Whatever EA's sport games used to be worth is going to be decreased by around $10.  You will see them on the shelf for around $10 less, and the trade in value is going to be around $10 less.  It doesn't matter what Play 'N' Trade bases their prices on, they are going to have to come down from what they are now if they want to be able to move inventory and make money.

No one will be able to charge the same prices after EA slaps a $10 fee onto used games to be able to play multiplayer.  Games where multiplayer is very important to gamers will see their used value fall very close to the $10, games where multiplayer is not very important to gamers will see their used value fall less.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

theRepublic said:
Squilliam said:
Does it hurt the seller in the used market? Yes definately. However it would only in effect be a few dollars in real trade in values as the Gamestop trade value reflects the long term discounted cost price where features like multiplayer are less valuable. In the short term given Gamestops large margins they would be take the majority of the hit as they could not sell the game for $50-55 as is typical but for a lesser amount such as $40-45 depending on loyalty card.

When sales go down they will keep their plan? No that doesn't logically make sense. Given the fact that its tendency is to increase, therefore they must have had some success in an industry sense or more publishers wouldn't be adopting this tactic.

All this is going to do is depress the value of used games, both trade in value and resale value.  Gamestop is going to keep the same margin, they are just going to buy and sell these games for less than before.  It is going to hurt gamers who finance their gaming by selling games.  It is also going to hurt publishers because it is going to push the shelf price of a used game even lower, making it more attractive.

They must have had some success for other publishers to adopt this?  No, this policy hasn't even gone into effect yet.  It starts with their 2011 sports line which hasn't even been released yet, so any publisher copying this is doing it blind.

Gamestop prices games at a long term discounted rate so it wouldn't effect the long term pricing of the used games significantly. Thats why they pay $25 for a $60 game. Gamestop doesn't have perfect market power and the ability to pass all of the costs onto the used game seller so they will take some/most of the hit, any economist would tell you this. If the used seller loses then the used buyer can win and its a balance between these two factors however if the price comes down then the demand goes up so the overall value lost on the used market is not the full $10 but a balanced market rate taking into consideration supply/demand.

Publishers aren't going to do anything which they believe will hurt their own interests. They are apt to experiment however and it appears the experiment has paid off given the fact that exclusive DLC for new buyers has been used in the past and this is an extension upon an already apparantly successful model.

 



Tease.

Squilliam said:

Gamestop prices games at a long term discounted rate so it wouldn't effect the long term pricing of the used games significantly. Thats why they pay $25 for a $60 game.

Why wouldn't they drop that long term discounted rate?

I posted this in another thread about this issue (http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=110650):

How is Gamestop going to move inventory if they try and take the $10 from the guy buying the game?  A used game is $55, and pass is $10.  So you end up paying $65 for a used game?  I don't think so.  Split 5 and 5 that still makes a complete used game $60, and no one is going to buy that either.  This policy will decrease the value of a used game.

In the real world, games that have this policy in place are not going to drop the full $10 though.  If multiplayer is only important to say, 50% of the people who buy that game, then the used value of that game is probably only going to be $5 less then what it normally would be.  So in the end, I think there are probably three losers here.  Those who buy games new and then trade them in, those who buy multiplayer games used or rent them, and the publishers in the long run will likely see decreased new sales due to the weakening of the used market.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

I'm with the support of Online Game Passes completely. The USED GAME MARKET is a BLIGHT ON THE GAME INDUSTRY. I know that many gamers will feel the opposite, but if you are going to buy the game with intent to support the industry. Make sure you actually supporting the developers. This Used Market only supports retail and it makes retail more money that new. Retail get's a bigger cut on used games than new games.

If your only going to buy the game for personal consumer intent. Then to the developers you might as well committed piracy. They don't see a cent in either situation. Though you are still supporting the economy in terms of paying some ones wage.

So if a developer/publisher want's money and are disgusted with used games. Then this is a perfect alternative. I suspect though that this will lower the value of used Online Pass Games at Retail Stores by apx$10 when gamers fully catch on and don't buy them used.

 

Anyone thinking that a back pedal of publishers will happen eventually from the out cry of gamers.. it won't. This model is not new. It's been out for around some odd years in the PC world. You Console Kids need to give it a rest. You can't have it both ways. You can't have PC Online service design that's 15 years old(claiming it's console originated) then bitch about PC service charges. It's a service charge that's it. Get used to it.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

.jayderyu said:

I'm with the support of Online Game Passes completely. The USED GAME MARKET is a BLIGHT ON THE GAME INDUSTRY. I know that many gamers will feel the opposite, but if you are going to buy the game with intent to support the industry. Make sure you actually supporting the developers. This Used Market only supports retail and it makes retail more money that new. Retail get's a bigger cut on used games than new games.

If your only going to buy the game for personal consumer intent. Then to the developers you might as well committed piracy. They don't see a cent in either situation. Though you are still supporting the economy in terms of paying some ones wage.

So if a developer/publisher want's money and are disgusted with used games. Then this is a perfect alternative. I suspect though that this will lower the value of used Online Pass Games at Retail Stores by apx$10 when gamers fully catch on and don't buy them used.

 

Anyone thinking that a back pedal of publishers will happen eventually from the out cry of gamers.. it won't. This model is not new. It's been out for around some odd years in the PC world. You Console Kids need to give it a rest. You can't have it both ways. You can't have PC Online service design that's 15 years old(claiming it's console originated) then bitch about PC service charges. It's a service charge that's it. Get used to it.

What are you talking about?

This isn't a PC model of buisness.  EA sports games are free on PC.  Any system with online like that is free on PC.  I mean, have you ever played a PC game?

I mean are you talking about MMORPGs?  MMORPGS are totally different stories because of the vast amount of stuff that needs to be stored on a server.

Games like this are FREE on PC... and probably will only cost money when stupid shit like this from consoles pollutes PC.  You know... just like everything else does.

Aside from the fact that once again... the Used market HELPS the New market.  Feel free to read the article i've already posted twice in this thread... it's basic economic fact.

By supporting this you are merely supporting companies like EA shooting themselves in the foot and losing revenue.