I almost find this insulting.So now i must be ignorant to be an athiest? 

Oh rly? I mean the part where he aid his pastor "showed it to him" (or some such) was genius. He a smart troll, him is.

Of what value is believing there is a deity who created all this and added structure to things?  Does any of this actually make a practical difference?  Does knowing that Will Wright created Simcity, the Sims and Spore mean anything relevant?  Why is believing there is some deity relevant?  Without knowing the actually nature of the deity and your level of interaction you will have with that deity, it is not of much value.

To address your "too many coincidences" comment, the reply comes back, "Well, who made the creator?" an d then you are stuck.  And then you can look at a lot of logical arguments pro and con and get nowhere.  This will draw sincere people, who have no personally vested interest in there being a deity, to actually be a soft agnostic and admit they just don't know. 

As far as atheists go, it is not right to make sweeping generalizations.  I can say atheists were usually raised that way, or had bad experiences in strong religious families.  There is also the person who lived in a weak religious family, who had a good life, and just didn't see where adding God would be of value.  The scope has a fairly wide range to it actually. 

I have been on this planet over 40 years now, and still likely have years to go.  I have walked through a very wide range of these arguments regarding God, experience agnosticism, Catholicism, evangelicalism and fundamentalist Christian, Protestantism, churches of Christ, and current am off and involved with Eastern Orthodox Christianity.  I know of a number of other religions also, read the Qu'ran, and also studied up on Buddhism.  In all this, I found all that book knowledge will do squat to prove anything to anyone, and see that people see what they want to see, either way that they like.

Well, in regard to what you wrote, let me ask you a question: If you ran into God, how exactly would you know this being is God?  Secondarily, why would it matter?  Would ie be some sort of ego trip for yourself that you resolved, once and for all, the then the world would bow at your genius?  Why would it matter, and how exactly does an argument proves anything exists?  What sort of shape and form would this evidence take?  And if it is some sort of personal magic trick done (a miracle), why would the being you wonder about resort to doing a magic trick just to placate your remote interest in knowing that s/he exists.  Again, why would the existing argument matter?

The argument of how you would know is important, because you could then have anything which could be used, like a wrestling match perhaps:

To answer your question, there may be places to start, if you are interested.  If it is merely that you see God potentially being some sort of government busybody who makes demands on you and will punish you later if you don't answer correctly, and isn't relevant, I am not sure you will find any evidence.  However, you really do have an interest in the subject, you may want to look into legitimately why people believe there is a God, and what makes up people that do.  For this, a good starting point would be a book called "How God Changes Your Brain".

Beyond this, I am not exactly sure why someone who created this universe would go way out of the way to just meet your one person's criterion for what would be a God.  Or try to do anything for you, if you don't have a clue as to how to recognize such a being.  I think it would be a bit absurd, for example, to find a signature with the word "God" written on it in English, on every single micro-organism, just so people who question whether or not God would exist, would believe in God existing.

The problem from my point of view is simple.  Being taught evolution is like being taught 2 2=4 or that the Universe would seem to be billions of years old or that the Earth orbits the sun.  It is correct and should be understood equally as an observable, measurable element of our world.

Evolution is in line with Galileo observing the Earth isn't the centre of the Universe whereas Creationism is merely a response in line with those who would lock up Galileo and enforce continued belief in something that would now appear, with the latest evidence to be false.  Creationism is about denying and ignoring evidence based purely on religious belief.

Creationism is not an alternative to Evolution and therefore nor should it remotely be taught as such in a school (what parents chose to do at home or outside school environment is their choice of course).

Heck, even the Pope agreed - although admitedly only with the Caveat that the Universe was created and Evolution is one of its systems.  But you know, even as an Atheist I can go with that as a fair compromise between something that genuinely can't be proven and something that has.

But believing Evolution isn't behind every species on Earth and that God created them 'as is' is simply denying the evidence.  If we're going to go down that route we might as well re-write our science books and put the Earth back at the centre of the Universe.

EDIT: I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this kind of argument - and I'm not.  Enjoy the thread folks but I'm out of here.  There's simply not point arguing around faith without evidence vs evidence.

This is so funny because today i was overhearing a discussion I was having with someone about the Bible, an atheist man (Joe) abruptly interrupted us (with a firm and skeptical tone of voice) asking, "Who wrote the Bible?"  Apparently the topic of God had aroused his curiosity (or hit a nerve!).  The answer to his pressing question was a quick and simple, "God wrote the Bible Joe."  That answer logically prompted him to his next pressing question, "Who is God?"  I tried to explain to him that Jesus Christ is God, that God is the Creator, that God keeps us breathing, and that God is beyond man's finite understanding.  The man asks again, "but who is God?"  I explain that God is God, and we see Him in creation and the Word of God.  Joe again asks, "but who wrote the Bible?"  God did Joe!  Joe repeats the question, "but Who is God?"  We go in circles.  In frustration I succumb to his paramount question: who is God?   Where does God come from?  Where is God?

To my surprise, the gentleman I had been speaking with (Dale, who's just been saved for a short time) speaks up and asks, "Who made that desk your sitting by Joe?"  Joe admits that he has no idea.  "But you can't deny that someone made it because it's in front of your face, right Joe?"  Joe is perplexed.  Dale proceeds to explain to Joe that just because we don't know "Who" God is doesn't mean that He doesn't exist.  God's creation is all around us, and we ourselves are God's creations as well.  Just as we may NOT know the name or history of the person who designed our home, crafted our watch or manufactured our automobile; we surely do NOT know as much about God as we wish we could all know.  But we DO know that these people exist, because of their works.  Likewise, God is revealed by His works of creation (Psalm 19:1-3).  The Bible has much to say about God, revealing His holiness and demand for justice, as well as His love and offer of forgiveness to humanity.  Jesus Christ is God's provision, the Lamb of God, Who shed His blood upon the cruel cross that we might be saved from the death and hell which our own wicked sins have brought upon us. 

Yes, Joe!, God is real, even though you may NOT know Who He is.  Who is God?  Apart from the Bible's teachings about God, I cannot tell you.  I can tell you that Jesus is God, but I cannot physically take you to Him.  I CAN tell you that God lives in my heart, but I cannot prove that to you apart from my changed life.  I can attest that history perfectly substantiates the Bible, but I cannot make you study history.  Not one archeologist has ever dug up so much as one spade full of dirt to disprove God's Word.  Scientifically, the Bible is accurate.  While the Bible was accurately declaring that the earth was round (Isaiah 40:22), people were being executed for teaching that the world was NOT flat.  I double-dog dare you Joe to disprove the Bible!  Joe replies, "Can you prove the Bible is true?"  Study history Joe!  When you study history, you are studying His-Story!  God's story!  There is NOT one PROOF of evolution, but archeology and science have produced an overwhelming amount of proof that the Bible is more than a mere religious document written by men.  The Bible is mysterious, supernatural and abundant in detail.  I challenge you to disprove it! 

What is proof?  Is there really any PROOF of anything?  You can show me a bunch of evidence, but it's my decision whether or not I want to accept it as evidence.  Based upon the SAME evidence, one person may see it as PROOF, whereas another would NOT.  What may be proof to me may not be proof to you.  I behold nature and see it as solid proof of God's existence, goodness and handiwork (Romans 1:20).  Einstein saw this as well.  Perhaps you don't see nature as evidence of God.  But the paramount question still remains, where did all this come from?  If it evolved from stardust, then why do we still live amongst single one-cell life forms (not politicians).  Why do humans have such high intelligence, but animals do not.  Why do humans have a conscience, guilt and morals which animals do not have?  Where did the moral conscience separate from the species?  The answers don't exist!  Humans are humans and animals are animals (1st Corinthians 15:39).  No wonder the Bible speaks of false science (1st Timothy 6:20).  Why false?  Simply because "science" means "to study."  There is NOTHING to study about evolution!  Evolution is NOT testable, repeatable or observable.  If evolution were true, there should be millions of proofs of it.  There is not even one!

Just as that desk, creation exists.  Just as that desk absolutely had to have a designer, so does creation.  There is a specific design in the universe.  The solar system is a perfectly balanced sphere.  Each of the planets exert gravity upon one another, the larger planets exert more gravity than the smaller.  They all rotate around the sun.  They all rotate in their own designated orbit.  Do you really foolishly believe that all this just happened?  If you do, you are not being reasonable.  Do you really believe that the human body just "evolved?"  Do you really believe that music just happened one day?  Do you really believe that all the religions in the world are just mass delirium?  Could it be that perhaps man's need for God is His proof?  Do you believe that love just happened?  Do you believe that sin evolved?  Where did this all come from? 

Who is God?  When Moses was asked by God to deliver the Israelites from bondage in Egypt, Moses didn't think the Israelites would listen to him.  Moses asks God what to say to the Israelites.  Here is what God said...

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." -Exodus 3:14

Who is God?  God IS!  God is God!  God says that His name is I AM.  I can only tell you friend that God IS!  I cannot speak of things which I do not understand.  No one can PROVE to you that God exists, you must look at the visible evidence for yourself.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" -Romans 1:20

We are all without excuse friend if we do not acknowledge God.  We need to become thankful with a sincere heart of gratitude towards God.  Don't be the fool like Joe who believes that the desk just fell out of the sky from nowhere.  Dale is right, someone made that desk.  You don't know his name, but you know the builder exists.  Likewise, I see creation.  I know it didn't just blowup into existence.  Someone designed and made creation..  The ONLY logical answer is God!

Bruce

Who are you? Ray Comfort? First of all, your story doesn't prove that your god is the right god. Your logical fallacies state that creation proves God. Does that mean snowflakes are proof of a snowflake making god or sunsets proof of a sunset making god? The reason we know a god didn't make rocks or sunsets is because we have a natural/observable explanation to how rocks are formed and how sunsets works. No scientists believes that nothing created everything. How the universe existed before the Big Bang is a scientific unknown which some fill in as God, and that's not a problem. However, there is a natural/observable explanation to the diversity of life we see on Earth. It's called evolution by natural selection.

For the chair being there, we know that someone made the deskk because WE CAN see desks being built all the time, and even if you never seen a desk being built, you can google and see how desks are made. That strawman argument because one is provable (the desk) while the other one is never proven. We have never seen any occurance that proves the existence of a god. Otherwise, everyone would be believing in the exact same god.

You said that the planets rotate perfectly and that they are round and orbit perfectly. Yes, gravity causes substances to be drawn together. This would result in a perfectly round planet. Gravity explains why the planets orbit around the sun in a circular manner, but not all satellites(planets) rotate perfectly. Pluto did not and is the reason why it's not considered a planet, but gravity of the sun still pulls Pluto along with many other dwarf planets in the solar system.

As for human evolution. Yes, we share a common ancestor with the great apes. There are many transitional forms: Australopithecus afarensis, Homo Neanderthal, Homo Erectus, Homo Habilis, Homo rudolfensis, and many more. We also have transitional forms from the original tetrapods, whale evolution, bird evolution, and almost every species we see today have fossil records of their past, but even if we didn't have such an overwhelming amount of fossils, we could still prove evolution through genetics and anatomy. We see how human chromosomal fusion happened, retroviral DNA in our genome and the great apes, vestigial structures, convergent evolution, observed speciation through lizards, bacteria, flies, birds, etc. There is an large amount of evidence for evolution, but creationists ignore these because it contridicts your bronze aged text.

Though I will agree with you that if there is a god, it would be so complex beyond our understanding. However, saying that God is God or I am that I am is not a good way to persuade someone, and of course your second verse that states that the universe is proof of God is not backed up by observable evidence. It would be just a plausible to say that the universe is proof that the flying spaghetti monster exists, and of course the "without excuse" is there to state that if you don't believe what the Bible says you'll burn in hell forever.

I hope that this clears up some of the lies, misinterpret information, and logical fallacies states in your post. I hope that you will open your eyes and see the evidence and its message. Evolution by natural selection is a fact.

uh? no, I'm just an average sinful human being like everyone else

and i'm bruce by the way, nice to meet you to

It took me a while, but I edited my last post to show you what is wrong with some of the things in your post.

@ underlined

Your post pretty much failed from that point, as the bible was written by men. I'm not going to debate the existence of god with you, but all religious texts are simply interpretations of "god's will" and explanations from an anchient age. That interpretation can be very different, hence why we have so many different religions in the world.

If you do a little bit of history you'll also find the new testament in its current form was decided upon many years after the death of Christ in Eastern Rome and that many gospels were declared heretical upon forming this consensus. That doesn't sound like God had much say in that portion of the bible considering he gave humans free will. That free will means all religious texts need to be read with the knowledge that they may have been changed or edited for political reasons.