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Forums - General Discussion - 9 dead as Israeli forces board Gaza aid Convoy

dsister on 31 May 2010

Can you delete some of the quote boxes? -_-

Shio said:

And it seems that now there are reports that IDF killed 2 activists before boarding the ship! WOW! Fuck israeli government.


I would like to see a link that confirms this. Two quick Google searches didn't get me any results



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shio on 31 May 2010
RageBot said:
shio said:
RageBot said:
shio said:
RageBot said:
shio said:
RageBot said:
shio said:
noname2200 said:
shio said:
noname2200 said:
According to the Yahoo! article, there seems to be tape showing that the Israelis didn't open fire immediately as the flotilla members claimed.

 Israel attacked innocent people, and the civilians only tried to protect themselves.

I should probably have cited to the article so that you could read the description.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Footage, or self-interested testimony?  Of course, the footage may well be incomplete.

It is irrelevant, the israeli soldiers attacked and boarded in international waters, which is pretty much the same as pirates. They then killed almost 20 civilians and seized all the aid that was for the palestinians.

1. The international law allows boarding a vessel that is on course to your country.

2. So you basically say that the Israeli forces shoudl've just said "okay, we won't use lethal force against you, stab our 18 to 20 year old soldiers as much as you please, and we will really appreciate it if you will turn back, too! :) "

3. The Israeli governmant told the Convoy (or whatever word is appropriate) that if they want to get the supplies into Gaza, they shoulod anchor in the Ashdod harbor, and the supplies will be transfered into Gaza, why would they refuse? Oh, now we know, don't we?

1- The flotilla WASN'T heading to Israeli waters. AND the flotilla made evasive maneuvers to return back when they spotted the israeli forces! Also, the international law only allows for the home forces to engage a ship at most 12 miles off the baseline of their home waters... the flotilla was over 80 miles off the coast, and well over the extended 12 miles.

According to LAW, Israeli illegally attacked and killed civilians.

2- So the civilians should say, "ok, let's allow these pirates to capture us, our ships and our supplies, and maybe even kill us"

3- The israeli government is known to always hold back humanitarian aid to palestine. They only allow atmost 1/4 of the aid necessary to help palestinians.

 

The Israeli government are terrorists. The blockade they have on Palestine is considered illegal, which is why this incident can cause huge damage to Israel. The Israel forces shouldn't even have been able to intercept the flotilla if it weren't for the illegal blockade.

1 - It was, that's a fact, and regarding international law - you are right.

2 - Yes, they should, since why would the Israelis kill them if they didn't do anything? If they take supplies into a place that is under Israeli jurisdiction, they should give the supply to Israel, just like plenty of other organizations do.

3 - Yeah, hold back humanitarian aid, like... wait no, you are wrong :)
Israel supplies water and electricity to Gaza, they allow dozens of trucks with food to enter Gaza every day, you really, don't know what you are talking about.

The blockade is illegal? So is suicide bombing in Israel, I have friends who lost family members in such bombing, Israel has every single right to make sure that no weapons enter Gaza, and no Bombers enter Israel.
You know what else is illegal? Firing Qasam rockets on Israeli civilians in Ashdod, but who gives a shit about these guys, right?

It isn't Israel's fault that they are better armed, and more lethal than the Palestinian terrorists, making their retaliations better than what Hamas fires at Israel.

It seems you are ignorant of the situation. The flotilla WASN'T heading to Israeli waters. They were heading to Palestinian Waters, to give aid to the inhabitants of Gaza Strip.

Israel has an illegal blockade surrounding the entire Gaza Strip, and that blockade has been called and decried hundreds of times by the global commuinity. It is an inhumane, and illegal blockade. It was the israeli forces from the blockade that attacked the flotilla and killed 19 civilians.

 

And it seems that now there are reports that IDF killed 2 activists before boarding the ship! WOW! Fuck israeli government.

Palestinian water? What is that? I don't think that something like that exist since, you know, there's no Palestinian state, but oh well.

Blah blah, it is illegal, and nessecery, firing rockets on Israeli civilians, is illegal, and unnessecery.

Link, with proof please, better in video format, just like there are plenty of videos that show that the Israeli soldiers landed, and were attacked, before using lethal retaliation.

Wow, you don't even know that Gaza Strip is a palestinian territory, and that itself holds waters?!

There are no videos of Israeli soldiers being attacked right after they boarded the ship (not that it matters, because the act of high-jacking a ship is considered an atack itself). So far, all the videos have only shown both sides being in conflict, you know, when the israeli killed 19 civilians?

So soon have people forgotten when Israelis killed hundreds of women and children in just a few days:

Gaza War

Israel:
- 10 soldiers killed
- 3 civilians killed

Gaza Strip:
- 491 police officers and millitants killed
- 926 civilians killed (313 children and 116 women)

 

 

 

There is no Palestinian state, that's a fact.

The Israeli attack on the Gaza strip was a retaliation, after the city of Sderot was bombarded with rockets for months, if not years, show me any other country in the world that is as capable as Israel, and would kill less than 1,000 innocents (if not far more than that) in a dense urban zones, after being bombarded for so long.

If Hamas would stop firing rockets on Israel, and agree to the terms that Israel offers, for establishing a Palestinian state (recognising Israel's right to exist, and recognising it as an existing state), Israel could remove all of the blockades, and never lay a single finger on the Palestinians.

But, you do know the fact that Hamas' goal is destroying Israel (and probably all Jews), right? They stated is several times, and they get military support (via smuggled weapons and ammunition) from Iran and Hezbolla, right?

There is a State of Palestine, only a minority of countries that don't recognize them.

The Gaza War was the continuity of ethnic cleansing. Israel has killed well over 10 times to what Palestinians killed.

Are you really saying that the killing of hundreds of children and women is justifies by the death of a couple of israeli deaths from a rocket?! The Israeli forces KILLED EVERY SINGLE PALESTINIAN, REGARDLESS OF IT BEING A CHILD OR NOT!!!

Israeli government is, right now, the biggest terrorist organization in the world.



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
FootballFan on 31 May 2010
shio said:

Israeli government is, right now, the biggest terrorist organization in the world.

Seriously?

You really are a joker, also your (full) post contains quite a lot of anti-semitism. We don't live in the dark ages where it was popular to be like that, we have moved on...clearly some people have moved further than others in the matter.



RageBot on 31 May 2010
shio said:

There is a State of Palestine, only a minority of countries that don't recognize them.

The Gaza War was the continuity of ethnic cleansing. Israel has killed well over 10 times to what Palestinians killed.

Are you really saying that the killing of hundreds of children and women is justifies by the death of a couple of israeli deaths from a rocket?! The Israeli forces KILLED EVERY SINGLE PALESTINIAN, REGARDLESS OF IT BEING A CHILD OR NOT!!!

Israeli government is, right now, the biggest terrorist organization in the world.

There is no Palestinian state, there's a Palestinian authority, there's no Palestinian capital.

With the rest i'm not going to bother, you can't prove your points, and you talk as if you have a personal agenda against Israel.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

badgenome on 31 May 2010
shio said:

The Gaza War was the continuity of ethnic cleansing.

Typically when a people are the victims of ethnic cleansing, there is less of them than there was originally. Given that there are a million more Palestinians now than a decade ago, to call this "ethnic cleansing" is absurd.



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famousringo on 31 May 2010
RageBot said:
famousringo said:
Ignoring the finger-pointing, the practical outcome is that Israel can cross another ally off the list. You can bet that Israel won't be willing to apologize and try to redress the offence to Turkey, because Israel truly has no regrets when it comes to using any amount of force in response to a threat, no matter how disproportionate or diplomatically insensitive.

Israel is building a self-fulfilling prophecy where it really is Israel alone, isolated, and surrounded by enemies. It acts only in the interest of Israel, and any country which fails to take its allies' interests into account will eventually find itself without any allies.

Probably.

The real mistake on Israel's part is the fact that they didn't take into consideration the possibility that some of the "peace activists" are violent Jihadist calling for the death of Jews.

And anyway boarding these ships was a mistake, the Israeli forces should've just neutrlized their engines (after entering Israeli waters) and make the ship stop in their tracks, while providing food, until the "peace activists" would agree to hand over the supplies (like they should've done in the first place).

I'd say it's just the opposite. The commandos were well-prepared to deal with violent, well-armed jihadists. They weren't at all prepared to deal with angry civilians armed with sticks and knives. An appropriate response would have been rubber bullets, pepper spray and batons, but all the commandos had were guns.

Because Israel chose to send in soldiers instead of police, a dozen or so civilians are dead and Netanyahu gets to manage yet another international incident.

I'm not convinced that shooting up the flotilla's engines would have been any safer or gone over any smoother.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

RageBot on 31 May 2010
famousringo said:
RageBot said:
famousringo said:
Ignoring the finger-pointing, the practical outcome is that Israel can cross another ally off the list. You can bet that Israel won't be willing to apologize and try to redress the offence to Turkey, because Israel truly has no regrets when it comes to using any amount of force in response to a threat, no matter how disproportionate or diplomatically insensitive.

Israel is building a self-fulfilling prophecy where it really is Israel alone, isolated, and surrounded by enemies. It acts only in the interest of Israel, and any country which fails to take its allies' interests into account will eventually find itself without any allies.

Probably.

The real mistake on Israel's part is the fact that they didn't take into consideration the possibility that some of the "peace activists" are violent Jihadist calling for the death of Jews.

And anyway boarding these ships was a mistake, the Israeli forces should've just neutrlized their engines (after entering Israeli waters) and make the ship stop in their tracks, while providing food, until the "peace activists" would agree to hand over the supplies (like they should've done in the first place).

I'd say it's just the opposite. The commandos were well-prepared to deal with violent, well-armed jihadists. They weren't at all prepared to deal with angry civilians armed with sticks and knives. An appropriate response would have been rubber bullets, pepper spray and batons, but all the commandos had were guns.

Because Israel chose to send in soldiers instead of police, a dozen or so civilians are dead and Netanyahu gets to manage yet another international incident.

I'm not convinced that shooting up the flotilla's engines would have been any safer or gone over any smoother.

The first troops the boarded the ship were armed with paintball/practice rifles, and basic pistoles, they were unequiped to dewal with what they encountered on the ship.

Israel made a mistake, I agree with you completely, no troops should've boarded any ship, however, once the Israeli troops were attacks with knifes, Metal rods, Bats, and were thrown off the deck, the lethal retaliation was self-defensive, in order to protect Israeli troops.

It would've gone, if these ships would've entered Israel's territorial water, since International law allows neutrilizing engines of ships who enter such areas without being allowed to do so by the government, it is actually something that happens in places like the US, not all the time, but frequently enough, not to mention that Israeli navy forces train to preform manuvers just like that, so that they can cause as little damage as possible.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

Samus Aran on 31 May 2010
badgenome said:
shio said:

The Gaza War was the continuity of ethnic cleansing.

Typically when a people are the victims of ethnic cleansing, there is less of them than there was originally. Given that there are a million more Palestinians now than a decade ago, to call this "ethnic cleansing" is absurd.

This just asks for a cruel joke.

 

I'll resist, however. 



famousringo on 31 May 2010
RageBot said:

It would've gone, if these ships would've entered Israel's territorial water, since International law allows neutrilizing engines of ships who enter such areas without being allowed to do so by the government, it is actually something that happens in places like the US, not all the time, but frequently enough, not to mention that Israeli navy forces train to preform manuvers just like that, so that they can cause as little damage as possible.

Impressive!

Well, if they could've pulled it off, and inside Israeli territory, then that does sound like a much better solution.

I don't really blame the soldiers for opening fire. They do have a right to protect themselves. I blame the guys up the chain who failed to either execute your engine plan or at least put men with appropriate training and equipment on the mission.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

FootballFan on 31 May 2010
Samus Aran said:
badgenome said:
shio said:

The Gaza War was the continuity of ethnic cleansing.

Typically when a people are the victims of ethnic cleansing, there is less of them than there was originally. Given that there are a million more Palestinians now than a decade ago, to call this "ethnic cleansing" is absurd.

This just asks for a cruel joke.

 

I'll resist, however.