By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Anyone else a bit offended at claims Heavy Rain's writing is Oscar Worthy?

MaxwellGT2000 on 16 May 2010
psrock said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
psrock said:
I don't mind the thread, but who is saying Heavy Rain is Oscar Worthy?

Not really much an "is", as "was". I saw it on comments on several sites around the launch. Although how much was viral marketers and how much was herd mentality isn't something I can answer.

it's nothing be offended by then, and so what, it's really different and tells a story like no ther game. Is it oscar worthy? no, but it will surely get some nomination for GOTY.

So games are not art confirmed



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Around the Network
JayLam on 16 May 2010
richardhutnik said:

There is a desperate need for videogames fans to feel their form of entertainment is as serious and worthy of praise artistically, as people who follow other genres, like movies. So, anything that is good for a videogame, will get elevated to "bestest eva" of all forms of arts. Videogame stories are felt to have to compete with the best of movies and books, for the interest in these games to be taken seriously. Even MGS4 was subject to this, with people saying it was better than the best of movies, from a storytelling perspective. I am sure Bioshock also gets this to. And I do think it is real good, but I personally thought the ending of the original Bioshock was borderline corny, and a bit of a cop out. It went well as a critique of objectivism, and then they jump into the standard corny appeal as the top argument against it (family), which I have seen in overabundance on TV. Good and evil go WAY beyond this. It would be good if videogame writers would do this to.  By the way, I say this feeling that Bioshock was one of the most engaging videogames I ever played (the original, not the sequel).

I would also like to comment regarding the standard videogames (and games in general) need to be held to, as art.  I do NOT believe the measure of greatness of a GAME as art is in how well you have a script for it, or how awesome the plot is.  I believe you measure it for the gameplay, and how well it engages a player to it, and they get something out of it.  This is the base level you evaluate the quality of a game.  Beyond this, you then look to the quality of the game world, and how well it lends to immersion on the part of the player and their ability to suspend current reality to feel they are in it through a character they control.  After this, if you want to have games to to even a higher level, you then look towards what players get out of it after they are done.  Did they learn something?  Does the experience stay with them, and they remember it.   I believe the original Bioshock, by the way the world was done, does definitely touch on this.  Civilization does also.  However, this measure is NOT the same as in a a movie.  A game can be lacking in what makes movies great, and still be a great game.  That is because a game is not a movie, just like a movie is not a book, and a book is not a painting.  All are art, but all are different.

great post.I cant agree more.

different genres should have different standards to be art.

why people only focus on comparing the story of game and movie？

 



Kurtz on 16 May 2010

Thank you for your input, knight. We will now ponder about your opinion for the next 3 minutes and move on.



binary solo on 16 May 2010
LordTheNightKnight said:
binary solo said:
I'm afraid, Mr. LOTK (and Mr Ebert and many others who think maybe one day video games could be an art form), that you missed the transition from video games being some sort of fun thing that a few kids do to being an art form about 2 (or maybe even 3 or more) generations ago. As soon as video game developers started using recognised artistic methods and techniques (story telling, music, voice acting (cut scenes), visual artistic design, etc etc), if it wasn't an art form before then, it certainly became one at that point.

That's objective, not subjective. Because it's based on an objective definition of what is art (dictionary) not some movie critic, or other pundit. In fact it is so blindingly obvious that video games are an art form that the desperation is, in fact, on the side of those who want to exclude it from the hallowed halls of artistry. From my perspective it's incredulity that people can't recognise the blindingly obvious and a desire to edify the ignorant that drives me to comment on the video game is art topic. That and the fact it's actually video game makers who want to be accepted as artists, not just gamer fans wanting to gain some sort of validation of their chosen leisure activity. Please note it was a game developer who spoke on TED against Ebert's obstinant attitude, or rather in favour of video games as art, not some rabid gamer fanboi foaming at the mouth over Ebert bagging his/her favourite activity. The desire for recognition comes from within the industry, not just its fan base.

This thread (on the wider matter of art) makes the fundamental error (like many other commentators) of categorising bad art as not being art. A bad painting is still art, though it may never see the light of day. So therefore it also makes the mistake of claiming that there is some form of quality standard that must be met before something can be granted the status of art. The state of being art is not something conferred by outside observers, especially not self appointed critics. Something is art because it exists within the sphere of an art form. The worth or merit (qualititative goodness or badness) of a given work of art is what the "audience" decides.

On Heavy Rain itself I haven't seen enough of it to make a judgement on the quality of the writing. If the script were to be taken as is (well with minor alterations as necessary to make the transition) and turned into a movie my guess is that it would not garner rave reviews. Actually the mere fact that you can judge Heavy Rain as being well scripted, or poorly scripted or somewhere in between is an admission in itself that video games are art. If you can judge the artistic merits of something then you are making a judgement based in the realm of the arts. Ergo what you are judging is art.

First of all, there is no "of" in my username, so the abbreviation is not LOTK.

Second of all, I'll bite games are already art. But it's still not a good idea to hold bad art up as a way to prove a medium is art.

@ your first of all: ummmmmm would you believe me if I said the "O" is from "Lord"?...no I didn't think so. OK it was a straight screw up in trying to acronymise your username.

@ your second of all: My point is (perhaps not well said) that people such as Ebert and others like to point to bad examples of video game art as a way to reject all video games as art, when it's not a legimate line of argumentation. So, I'm not using bad VGs as an argument in favour of VGs being art. I'm saying people CAN'T use bad video games as an argument against video games being an art form. Video games, like all art forms, have their masterpieces and their trash. What defines a masterpiece in video game terms is a completely different set of criteria from what defines a masterpiece in other artistic media; and they are not directly comparable even between movie-like games and movies. Video games can be argued as being in the ascendant in that what is a masterpiece keeps being redefined. Most other artforms are at their peak or even on the descendant in that the great masterworks have already been made and no one is producing works of the same quality any more.

I've read/had discussions with some people who think painting is really a dead art form because there is nothing new to do or explore with painting; it's all re-hashing existing ideas and material. Now, they say, it's really about sculpture for the purely visual arts. My friend, who is a painter, likes to disagree somewhat.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

thelifatree on 16 May 2010

I think, people care what other people think too much. And try to categorize things too much. Now if someone finds the inconsistency in this post I will give them a cookie (because their is one :D).

If someone likes it or anything in general... they can spout anything they want about. Just like how some people dislike something they start spouting negativity about it.



Around the Network
mirgro on 16 May 2010

I fully agree. Compared to the writing of good movies, Heavy Rain was just laughable.

But don't be so harsh on it, I can't think of any game with a story that is anything above "barely passable" when thinking of stories throughout all media.



scottie on 17 May 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_in_Love

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Will_Hunting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(2000_film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Brockovich_(film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Big_Fat_Greek_Wedding

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incredibles

 

Not at all :)



blaydcor on 17 May 2010
Severance said:
makingmusic476 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Well the dialogue from GTA4 is already Oscar-worthy, so if this dialogue is better than that, what else are we supposed to call it?

GTAIV has a 1,000 page script.  Heavy Rain's comes nowhere close.  GTA wins by default. 

Heavy Rain is 2,000 page script btw.

An average published page has about 400 words.

No fucking way Heavy Rain has an 800,000 word script. 



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

thelifatree on 17 May 2010
blaydcor said:
Severance said:
makingmusic476 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Well the dialogue from GTA4 is already Oscar-worthy, so if this dialogue is better than that, what else are we supposed to call it?

GTAIV has a 1,000 page script.  Heavy Rain's comes nowhere close.  GTA wins by default. 

Heavy Rain is 2,000 page script btw.

An average published page has about 400 words.

No fucking way Heavy Rain has an 800,000 word script. 

you do know that scripts =/= book

they have lots of spaces, and things that arent said, but describe the scene such as movements the character does.

I dunno how many pages it is though.



blaydcor on 17 May 2010
--OkeyDokey-- said:
The overwhelming majority know full well how crappy Heavy Rain's script is and how much worse the voice work makes it.

Heavy Rain is praised for the way it immerses and engages you in its awful story. It's a great game. I know you hate it for no reason but it's been 3 months already. Get over it.

I honestly don't really consider it a game. It's like one of those Goosebumps choose-your-own scare books for grown-ups plus visuals. More an interactive novel or movie. 



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.