You really don't know how to hold an argument. The vast majority of the black people in Europe came from migration, and they definitely have an easier job of getting work than the eastern europeans immigrating to the west.

The fact is, the white people in Portugal aren't morally obligated to give anything to black people, nor any other minority. Everyone is responsible for their own path.

What Affirmitive Action has done is breed more fear and racism. I remember not so long ago, a white cop arrested a black teacher for slander and racist insults, yet the poor cop was hunted down by the media and ignorant racist people. His partner, a black cop, defended him and told everyone that his partner did the right thing, yet a portion of the black community insulted and harassed the black cop and his family, telling him that he was betraying his race for helping his friend. Even Obama (someone I think is racist), did nothing to calm everyone down, and just wanted to pull a promotional stunt.

Conclusion? Because of the pressure of ignorant people, the police was forced to release the black asshole with no charges. Tell, me where is the justice in that?

Cuz he is white :P I mean seriously tho

In nations like the USA, or even in continents like Europe, if you trace back your family tree many will be 10% this 5% that etc etc...it's silly to have these kind of discussions imo

As long as he is a great president, I could care less what color he is etc...cuz we are all human

So the way to hold an argument is blanket assertions and a random anecdote ... that's misrepresenting the situation that happened? 

To save myself some effort, I'll let Obama tell the story: 
"Well, I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts. What's been reported, though, is that the guy forgot his keys. He jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called into the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. so far so good. Right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger in -- well, I guess this is my house now so it probably wouldn't happen. Let's say my old house in Chicago. here I'd get shot. But so far so good. They're reporting, the police are doing what they should. There's a call. They go investigate what happens. My understanding is at that point Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words but my understanding is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house. And at that point he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped. Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts what role race played in that, but I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry. Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. And that's just a fact.

"As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in this society. That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet, the fact of the matter is that, you know, this still haunts us. And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause cast suspicion even when there is good cause, and that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody's going to be."

So a cop goes to a house that some guy was breaking into, and it turns out it's HIS HOUSE.  Even if the professor ended up yelling at him (with absolutely no provocation I'm sure), I don't think it's an arrest-worthy scenario.  Really, now, arrested for disorderly conduct for words exchanged in his own house?  Within the law, surely, but also a dick move.  Are you honestly surprised charges were dropped? 

On the other hand, if the officer and his partner were harassed, that's a shame -- but that sort of thing happens when someone gets negative publicity of almost any kind, no? 

And while I'm at it, the second part of Obama's quote is informative why we would call him black.  Do you think when black people get disproportionately pulled over, that mixed-race people aren't?  Of course they are.  So because of things like that they would naturally identify with blacks instead of whites.  And I'm no expert but I don't think that they've carved their own independent niche in our culture, so to insist that we address them differently is dumb IMO. 
Kasz can probably correct me on everything I'm wrong about

Right... clearly this is true due to your absolute complete lack of proof. 

Note this flies in the face of all the evidence that shows that in most europeon countries... actual naturally born citizens of a differnt color and an ethnic name are FAR LESS likely to be called back for interviews... even when their credentials are superior. 

Having an African or Arab name means you are FAR less likely to get a job then just about ANYBODY according to the studies, even if your more qualified then others apply.

It's VERY clear that Europe does NOT hire based on qualification.  In fact, they do NOT hire on qualification MORE then the US.

Affirmitive Action, for all it's bad points is MOSTLY nothing but a bunch of equal oppurtunity laws and laws that maintain racial quotas soley for external benefit.  Not the benefit of those being hired.

Two points i alredy mentioned, but you've ignored.

Europe = More racist then America by the stats. 

Until you have stats to back yourself up... don't bother replying.

There is NOWHERE in the world where race is not an issue.  Which is what's bothersome... the flippant "oh racism isn't a problem here" attitude, when the stats show otherwise... where you can gather it anyway, since a lot of it has to be done by third parties because some governments like France decide to outlaw the ability for the government to collect info based on race.

FYI, i'd rank systems in order like this.

1) Information of races is collected including adjusted by education, equal rights laws (98% of Affirmative Action) is in place and these results are published bi annually. Special interest groups can boycott and picket the backsliders. etc.

2) The American system. It works... clearly, based on the statistics.

3) The French system. Ignore race and racism and hope it will go away. That's all the French system does... as has been shown by the VERY REAL racism that still exists in France in very huge ways. Way bigger then the US.


The reason the French system doesn't work is really fairly obvious. Rules like the French have only work when racism isn't a problem... because otherwise there is no way to tell if anyone is racist.

It's like having a system where home invasion statistics are never taken. Is that going to stop home invasions? Of course not! You've taken away the ability to track it.

A problem has never been solved by closing your eyes.

Well, outside of problems like "Boy that's ugly" and "Man do I feel dizzy".

It's not race equality when a race gets more benefits than the other :\

Just because the french people screwed up, that doesn't mean the rest is the same. The US government forces companies to hire UNDER-QUALIFIED PEOPLE BASED ON RACE!!!! That is extremely racist.

Everytime I hear something in the US, it's always about racism. I remember once I was reading an article that said the number of black pros in Major League Baseball was decreasing (which it is), and in the end of the article it said that the article wasn't meant to be racist nor stating that blacks were inferior!

Answer me this: Why should the white portuguese have less benefits than racial minorities?

What about the poorest under-qualified white people? What would happen to them?

Yeah, uh.  Unless you've noticed... pretty much EVERY country hires underqualfied people based on race.  It's usually just the minority races that get underqualfied... and it's usually in bigger numbers.

Also, as was shown.   It's not JUST france.  France is just the biggest case.

As for your statements about portugal... I've yet to see any actual proof... other then your random statements.  You probably don't even have any statitistics on it... so you can't really say.

Either way, France is 5 times more important then portugal in this discussion, since they have 5 times the people and therefore have a bigger share of the Euro population.

And studies show they are racist 90% of the time they hire for jobs.  90%. 

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1277120.php/Study_finds_widespread_racism_in_French_hiring_practices

Not to mention the UK has already also been show to be racist.   France itself is 7% of the EU.... So that's what 6.3% Racism even before considering ANY other country?  Oh, not to mention that they are actually a LARGER part of the economy of the EU for hiring because their economy is much better then a lot of other countries.  So it's really a larger number.

Thomas Jefferson was as black as Obama technically but it was recessive I guess.

Hopefully, I m here to kick some ass again ;)

Let's put away those eastern european people.
Let's focus on black versus white because it is a lot easier to deal than arab or asian or latino
Let's focus on US vs FR
I decided to put away UK because it makes the comparaison harder and because my point applicate mostly to France. I will say the same for spain for example ...

so, first, I would say that FR has A LOT less black people in their territory AND that those people come quite recently in FR (well, most of them). So, FR is dealing with a 50 years old proble, 100 years at worst.
At the opposite, black people live in US since the creation of the country.

US : black + white
FR : white until recently

second point, the immigration rate of the black population is very different between the countries. France has a lot of africans immigration RIGHT NOW while the immigration rate in US is quite reduced as most black people are endemic black people that lived there since severals generation. This means that the level of integration (culture/language) is not at all the same.

US : endemic black
FR : recent immigration

so what do we have at the end ? France is dealing with a quite new problem that is FAR more complex that the one in US because the difference is not only skin. It is also language, culture, religion, etc ... AND it is a NEW problem.

I do believe, that we are dealing with it a lot better than US.
To me, US is full of "unexpressed" hatred (who said Xbox live ?) and unexpressed communautarism despite those supposed great Affirmative Action law.

Finally, since this is not the same "black population" and the same context, using poor statistic based on unemployement rate in the minorities without taking account the specificity of each country means nothing
At the end, I can't myself either prove which is the most racist country between Fr and Us.