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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy - What Went Wrong!!

What can I say about this scene? You should see the japanese version.



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I got riddiculed for stating that FF was past it and the sales have shown me to be right



Condor1980 said:
I got riddiculed for stating that FF was past it and the sales have shown me to be right

uh how? all of the new ones 7+ outsold 6-. Including 13 which is still selling? Sales don't have a whole lot to do with quality other than budget.



lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 



weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

At the same time you could say. FF7 was their peak in sales, they've changed it every game since. So yes they want a larger audience every videogame company does because they need sales. I'm not saying you have to like it. But they didn't right after 7 go and clone it and create 8, it was quite a different game. Final Fantasy has been like that since FF1, because II drastically changed it  as well.

Also recently,  Final Fantasy X-2 had more sidequest than basically any other FF game. WIth tons of exta sidequests You can choose not to like it, but those sidequests flesh out the story and everything you said a whole lot. Also, creators in can't automatically create the atmosphere and everything, they can't just magically create a FF7. They could magically create it with better battle mechanics. But FF is story based, and stories tend to reflect on the individual. As I thought FFX had the best story anyways, and many others do not.

And greece has nothing to do with this.



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weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

Well, since FF has never been a series that has pushed me to a limit in which I can consider a pain to finish the battles (except for some superbosses like Omega in FFXII or Ozma in FFIX), I never felt that it suddendly has changed for a more easy approach. Some games feel more strategic and others feel more linear in terms of battle approach.

I agree that FFXIII pushed the overall simplification too much, focusing more on the graphical package and the story rather than everything else, but as I said, this has been intermitent with all FFs, not just the recent ones.

Keeping a formula stale, if not correctly applied (and there aren't that many RPGs that can correctly apply the same formula), can be just as bad as non-sensical change. And I can't seriously comment on your last phrase since both situations have nothing comparable in them. 



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

Well, since FF has never been a series that has pushed me to a limit in which I can consider a pain to finish the battles (except for some superbosses like Omega in FFXII or Ozma in FFIX), I never felt that it suddendly has changed for a more easy approach. Some games feel more strategic and others feel more linear in terms of battle approach.

I agree that FFXIII pushed the overall simplification too much, focusing more on the graphical package and the story rather than everything else, but as I said, this has been intermitent with all FFs, not just the recent ones.

Keeping a formula stale, if not correctly applied (and there aren't that many RPGs that can correctly apply the same formula), can be just as bad as non-sensical change. And I can't seriously comment on your last phrase since both situations have nothing comparable in them. 

Things need to change in Greece... people protest...

Final fantasy made a change... people protest...

But maybe i'm just making strange comparisons.

 

But to respond, i personally had a 'hard' time finishing the final bosses in V, VII and VIII. And i never stated that they had changed suddenly for an easier approach. It just feels like it is getting more easy to come to, and finish the last battle.  And by saying this has been 'intermitent'(?) with all FF's i disagree. The focus on graphical splendor did not stand in the way of making an absolute masterpiece with FFIX. Seriously, I don't think that has ever gotten in the way of creating an outstanding and very elaborate FF... up untill now.



weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

Well, since FF has never been a series that has pushed me to a limit in which I can consider a pain to finish the battles (except for some superbosses like Omega in FFXII or Ozma in FFIX), I never felt that it suddendly has changed for a more easy approach. Some games feel more strategic and others feel more linear in terms of battle approach.

I agree that FFXIII pushed the overall simplification too much, focusing more on the graphical package and the story rather than everything else, but as I said, this has been intermitent with all FFs, not just the recent ones.

Keeping a formula stale, if not correctly applied (and there aren't that many RPGs that can correctly apply the same formula), can be just as bad as non-sensical change. And I can't seriously comment on your last phrase since both situations have nothing comparable in them. 

Things need to change in Greece... people protest...

Final fantasy made a change... people protest...

But maybe i'm just making strange comparisons.

 

But to respond, i personally had a 'hard' time finishing the final bosses in V, VII and VIII. And i never stated that they had changed suddenly for an easier approach. It just feels like it is getting more easy to come to, and finish the last battle.  And by saying this has been 'intermitent'(?) with all FF's i disagree. The focus on graphical splendor did not stand in the way of making an absolute masterpiece with FFIX. Seriously, I don't think that has ever gotten in the way of creating an outstanding and very elaborate FF... up untill now.



FF8) Lionheart + Zell's Limit Break + Aura :D Plus rinoa cause shes cute. I know, because I like it more than FFXIII :D

Many people when FFVIII was released many did not think it was outstanding, many did. Same with FFIX, Same with FFXII. Same with FFXIII. So it's possible that yes this FF is in the more polarizing group along with FFII, which it is for some reason. However many people still find FFXIII outstanding, when people didn't like FF8 and you did, some people didn't like it. If you don't like FFXIII that's fine. However as said, the games are all different, and I'm sure not all Final Fantasy's have touched your emotions the same way, as when you bring emotion into it, it's more personal atleast that kinda fits what emotion is. I thought FFX did that in a way no other final fantasy did, which is why it's my favorite.



weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

Well, since FF has never been a series that has pushed me to a limit in which I can consider a pain to finish the battles (except for some superbosses like Omega in FFXII or Ozma in FFIX), I never felt that it suddendly has changed for a more easy approach. Some games feel more strategic and others feel more linear in terms of battle approach.

I agree that FFXIII pushed the overall simplification too much, focusing more on the graphical package and the story rather than everything else, but as I said, this has been intermitent with all FFs, not just the recent ones.

Keeping a formula stale, if not correctly applied (and there aren't that many RPGs that can correctly apply the same formula), can be just as bad as non-sensical change. And I can't seriously comment on your last phrase since both situations have nothing comparable in them. 

Things need to change in Greece... people protest...

Final fantasy made a change... people protest...

But maybe i'm just making strange comparisons.

 

But to respond, i personally had a 'hard' time finishing the final bosses in V, VII and VIII. And i never stated that they had changed suddenly for an easier approach. It just feels like it is getting more easy to come to, and finish the last battle.  And by saying this has been 'intermitent'(?) with all FF's i disagree. The focus on graphical splendor did not stand in the way of making an absolute masterpiece with FFIX. Seriously, I don't think that has ever gotten in the way of creating an outstanding and very elaborate FF... up untill now.

What do you consider more elaborate? Because if it's all about gameplay, story, sidequests, ability to go wherever you want and sheer things to do/explore, FFXII had that in spades. FFXII was perhaps the biggest FF game ever made so far, with a very expansive universe, that took a lot from what previous games of the Ivalice world had achieved before and gave a very different approach to what the typical FF story used to be. I agree that FFXIII took a step back from what FFXII achieved, and went for a much more similar approach than FFX had done before.

As for FFIX, I agree that it was perhaps one of the better, post FFVI expressions of FF games, yet it too had some very blatant faults. Like an overly simplistic and cliche story and a completely out-of-the-blue final boss/ending that made no sense whatsoever.

The problem with FF is not what the developers create with them, is how FF fans percieve of what they want a FF game to be. Some fans prefer that each new FF game would be similar to pre-PSX FFs, some prefer that they would be similar to pre-PS2 FFs, some accept the changes, some hate them.



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

thelifatree said:
weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
lestatdark said:
weaveworld said:
perpride said:
@letstat - It's all about learning to appreciate the change. I've been a LONG TIME fan of the series. The first time I played was almost two decades ago. Every single game makes huge changes and I welcome these changes 99% of the time.

For me, the battle system is a huge part of any JRPG. Final Fantasy is amazing because they are constantly innovating in this department. This is also the reason I regard FFXIII and XII as two of the best games in the series.

Here's two of the reasons ppl hate FFXIII:

1 - Not a PS3 exclusive. It seriously bothers PS3 fanboys to see such amazing sales for a game that was supposed to be exclusive. Honestly, half the hype for this game turned into hate before it even released.

2 - Not Nintendo exclusive. Believe it or not, there are still nintendo fanboys that are bitter about the fact that Final Fantasy moved onto different platforms. You can spot these people very easily: they think the series sold out after VII.

what I find weird with Final Fantasy is how passionately people hate it. I mean, when a person doesn't like a game, they usually just don't play it. With FFXIII, it seems people will go out of their way just to troll the game. Look at Rhada's signature for reference. It's like they feel the need to express their hate at every possible moment.

I've been a 'long' term fan myself, and the new iterations still don't give me the same kind of 'satisfaction' the older games gave me. Be it the lack of sidequests, the focus on graphical orgasms, the lack of minigames or the lack of... lets call it the x-factor.

I won't hate on any Final Fantasy yet but still FF13 hasn't given me the emotions while playing the 'others' (VI, VII, VIII etc.) gave me. There IS something different, and i do not mind innovation, but i do mind simplification. Sure, try to cater to a new audience, but do not defend a series that is trying something new and make everyone who dislikes it a 'moron' with your two statements. I've seen lots of reasonable arguments why 13 just isn't all that and they have nothing to do with your summary.

The thing about the aparent simplification of FF in FFXIII has no right to be so. 

I'm not saying that the simplification isn't there, but it was already there on FFX, and on FFXII they brought back a much higher level of complexity. That's typical of the FF main series, as it fluctuates along each new game.

The same also happened with previous FFs. In terms of complexity, one can say that FFV was utterly more complex than FFVI, yet that didn't mean that it would stay the same for the next FF games. One cannot simply look into one game on the FF series and then create elations for the future of the series, because it's always changing. 

You are right in the fact that it is always changing. But by simplification is not just ment(?sp) the toughness of battles. It is a mere statement of not having to search for answers/characters/storyline/sidequests. It might include the easiness of finishing the last battle which hasn't been a pain since FFVIII/IX... to me at least.

One should understand the so called hatred toward a series that is trying to change/innovate. The question is whether the change is made for the purpose of being innovative or merely to cater to a broader audience which seems very likely within the FF franchise nowadays... to me again at least.

Hell, ask the people in Greece whether they like the change that is brought upon them

 

 

Well, since FF has never been a series that has pushed me to a limit in which I can consider a pain to finish the battles (except for some superbosses like Omega in FFXII or Ozma in FFIX), I never felt that it suddendly has changed for a more easy approach. Some games feel more strategic and others feel more linear in terms of battle approach.

I agree that FFXIII pushed the overall simplification too much, focusing more on the graphical package and the story rather than everything else, but as I said, this has been intermitent with all FFs, not just the recent ones.

Keeping a formula stale, if not correctly applied (and there aren't that many RPGs that can correctly apply the same formula), can be just as bad as non-sensical change. And I can't seriously comment on your last phrase since both situations have nothing comparable in them. 

Things need to change in Greece... people protest...

Final fantasy made a change... people protest...

But maybe i'm just making strange comparisons.

 

But to respond, i personally had a 'hard' time finishing the final bosses in V, VII and VIII. And i never stated that they had changed suddenly for an easier approach. It just feels like it is getting more easy to come to, and finish the last battle.  And by saying this has been 'intermitent'(?) with all FF's i disagree. The focus on graphical splendor did not stand in the way of making an absolute masterpiece with FFIX. Seriously, I don't think that has ever gotten in the way of creating an outstanding and very elaborate FF... up untill now.

For one I find, comparing Final Fantasy Drama, to Greece is a lil insensitive that their problems are equivalent to a videogame, but that's fine I guess.

FF8) Lionheart + Eden
FF7) uhh... That was easy, for me atleast.

Except for people when FFVIII was released many did not think it was outstanding, many did. Same with FFIX, Same with FFXII. Same with FFXIII. So it's possible that yes this FF is more polarizing, which it is for some reason. However many people still find FFXIII outstanding, when people didn't like FF8 and you did, some people didn't like it. You don't like FFXIII that's fine.

Oh come on... now you're being oversensitive. Changes made beyond your influence tend to make people protest. The people who will suffer the most in Greece were not at fault. Sadly enough...

And, i did like FF13... Never stated i didn't. To be clear, i'm absolutely NOT hating... So far to me every single FF game is an outstanding game in itself. But for some reason the dislikes for 13 are easier to back up with concrete and well-argumented reasons. Because the game lacks certain things others did not. But still a great game though.