Well all you wrote is true but here is the good part:

Greece was promised this 110b euro bailout if they pass a restructure package that would guarantee economic stability for the next years. Obviously since they received the money that means that package was passed in the parliament.

Personally i think that sooner or later the Eu will have to become more like the united states to make sure that a similar crisis doesn't happen again.

Of course Goldman Sachs did something wrong and immoral. Of course it's true that they offered a deal! But that doesn't mean the deficit and Greek crysis is their fault. There's always crooks out there who will help you to fix your numbers if you want to borrow money. They offer deals all the time to potential customers.

It's you who are naive. It's like it's perfectly normal for you that a modern civilized nation's government acts like children and accepts any immoral deal from banks that tease with promises to fix and polish your financial accounts?

The Polish did the right thing. They were responsible. The Greek were not.

This has been an interesting thread. I've learned more about Europe today than the last 10 years. yes i'm an ignorant Canadian. I can't but help, but think that sometimes it's best to cut the fat takes losses now rather than bloat a problem later.

It all depends on Germany and France. Most of that money is coming from those two country's with the majority coming from Germany. The people of Germany are upset about this, which is understandable considering they did nothing wrong. If the people of Germany decide to vote in a new goverment that is set on removing them from the EU then you are looking at a complete collapse of the whole system. Who knows how likely that is. If this Crisis is contained in Greece then thats not going to happen, but if it spreads to Spain and Portugal I could see it happening.

I'm not sure if the EU can become like the US. When you are forced to aid other nations it can cause resentment and to be brutally honest people are less likely to favor spending money on people that are not their own.

And your whole post is supposed be about what? Because it doesn't make any sense to just say that it's the fault of Greece, you didn't reinvent the wheel claiming this and notice that that i not once claimed that Greece is not at fault, i simply am showing that there's always the other side to the deals and that other side is Goldman sachs which has been playing with currencies in europe like crazy over the past decade.

Poland over the last year had and incredible swing in the strength of the Polish zloty going from a 1:2 ration per US dollar to even a 1:4 ratio. Over a single year where our economy is the steadiest and well paced in the region. And you know what? it turns out that Goldman Sachs was playing with our currency, betting that it will strengthen and then weaken. So first they buy out our currency in massive quantities and then just as so sell them.

Normally i wouldn't have a problem but these companies are not operating on a small scale but on macro scales. Because of their "games" the export sector is in shambles not to mention that potential investors are afraid to come in saying that Poland is not steady enough, but just how is a country like Poland supposed to fend of a company like Goldman Sachs?

And where the hell did that third paragraph of yours come from? Who said that it's normal? Where? You really went way to far with presumptions on this one my friend. The fact of the matter is that a country by itself does not have the ability to move such large amounts of money without being noticed ( we're talking about 15 b euro here). Goldman Sachs decided to offer their services and the greek gave in to stupidity, that i completely agree on. All i'm saying is look at Goldman Sachs as huge contributor to the current situation.

Could have Greece done something before it got out of control? Sure. Did they expect a crisis to hit them and hit them so hard......hah. They gambled. And they decided to do it at the worst time possible.

But it isnt onyl greece though. Didnt Portugal, Italy, Ireland and some others report about financial troubles aswell? Say goodbye to your fancy lifestyles and say hello to the 3rd world! Lol!

I remember last year I was flying from Cyprus to Munich. With a stop in Athens and as we arrived in Munich our plane actually stopped not on the gate . there was a red carpet and on the sides there were dozends of policemen. And the captain told us we had to wait. So actually the guy 3 seats in front of me was the greek president and his wife.

Our high politicans fly with non-public planes. So I was pretty impressed that the greek president used a standard airline.

Politicians are mostly not just after money. In the privat industry you can earn 10 times 100 times or 1000 times (or even 10000times) more. Our Chancelor earns less then the father of a friend which is leader of a local healthcare insurance.

If you put that into perspective with the billions of dues greece has its insignificant. As far as I have seen it the infrastructure and the average life quality improved a lot in the last 20 years.
The money ofcourse went also to some politicians but also for the average greek person they dont feel that way because it was a slow progress not everything what has improved was because of the economy growth. The economy just didnt grew as fast as the dues. Combined with the ability to make more dues because of the Euro (which is a mayor benefit for poorer countries with the euro you have access to way bigger credits since the stabilty of the currency is way bigger then the stabilty of the former currencies)

Its not efficent to blame people even if they have more fault then the average greek person. Now everything should be changed and done right so it cant happen anymore its senseless to complain the damage is done and there is no way back, the greek government and the greek population has to pay the bill and even million protests cant change that it lies in the hand of whole europe now its not a national problem anymore. European countries have to help greece if they wouldnt the whole greek economy would collapse and affect the other countries too. But they gave their money not without some demands and those demands have to be executed by the greek government no matter which party has the power


The whole system is dangerous for countries without the right sized economical backbone. Its easy to get in the vicious circle of making dues to pay other dues. But its only working aslong as your economical growth is atleast as big as the growth of your dues. And not all countries can allow themselfs to do that. Its not just a greek thing. Island on the other hand went actually bankrupt. Also Hungary had problems and other south european countries.


The system is wrong a lot of countries get credits even though everyone knows its to much they cant pay it back. But since they know that the poorer countries are backed up by middle and north europe they give them more and more credits and the governments of the poorer countries just have to take the credits because if they wouldnt do it there would be protests
and they wouldnt be reelected. So they take everything what they can get.


The system has to be changed we need an european rating agency which could give alternative ratings and the banks should also show some responsibility. Actually some of the banks have a bigger revenue then a lot of smaller european countries. they have more weight then for example (this list could go on forever) greece or portugal or irland in the world economy so they should act more careful and dont give credits to easily.

And how exactly is the united states safe from such a crisis ?

Did you follow the issues California has had with its deficit these last 2 years ?

 lol??? Its a global economy, just look at the US market today. Hell its even effecting the Asain markets.

 The EU is huge economic force and if its in trouble then the whole world is going to suffer.

Were not safe, we just suffer from different problems. The federal reserve protects us from situations like whats happening is Greece. Some of the larger political issue are also avoided by being organized under one government.

It all comes down to managing debt and economic growth. We have national banking which allows us to manage debt in a different way then a contry like Greece.