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Forums - Sony - Sony sued over Linux removal, Case documents surface

Icyedge on 04 May 2010
Kasz216 said:

Actually, you can.  Note how the lawsuit... involes and injunction.

Regardless... like I said, according to Sony.  They will require 2.21.

And yes... the deffault update leaves you unable to play default PS3 games... that's what the whole lawsuit is about... that and a breach of a bunch of consumer laws.

You actually CAN sue for something that is going to happen in the future by the way... provided you know they are going to do it.  The ruling mandates that they can't do it.  People do it all the time.  Injunctions and such

 

 

This update 3.21, wasnt like other updates before it. It removes a feature on your system. We cannot take for granted that Sony will force this update if you dont need it. "May require", is not the same thing as "will require". "May require" surely leaves the door open. But, function like 3D or PSmove needs an upgrade so that can be what "may require" mean. We cannot take for granted they will force you to remove one of your system feature to play regular games the system is suppose to play by default. My point is very reasonable, I dont understand why you spin it every time.



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greenmedic88 on 08 May 2010

Here's an update regarding alleged forced firmware updates.

Super SF IV does not require a firmware update. I currently have it playing on a 60GB SKU with 3.15 firmware installed.

Also, there is no option to install the current firmware update on the game disk. Not in the game itself, or through the Update Via Storage Media in the System Settings. I don't know where this information is coming from. No surprise here as it would be a first among the 50 or so games I've run on the PS3.

So as of right now, that information is made up, as in imaginary and non-existent until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned.

All I can say right now is that I'm sure 3D support and Move support WILL require a firmware update, but everyone should already know this. The code to enable those features didn't exist when 3.15 was the current firmware. So anyone using what is now an unsupported feature with Other OS installation simply won't have access to these new features.

As for all other games based upon the original (as of 3.15) feature set; still waiting for that game that will allow me to update my firmware off disk. After someone can confirm this exists, then I'd like confirmation that a firmware update is required to run any game.



thranx on 08 May 2010

I wouldn't call it so soon. It would take time for a disc with it to come out. And it may not be on every game



greenmedic88 on 08 May 2010
thranx said:
I wouldn't call it so soon. It would take time for a disc with it to come out. And it may not be on every game

The claim was already made that firmware updates are currently ALREADY written on BD game disks and that certain games, no specifics mentioned beyond SSFIV, actually required firmware updates in order to be played.

I think the claim actually went so far as to assert that firmware updates have been written on BD game disks for quite some time which had me wondering why the hell I (along with millions of other users) bothered to download the arm's list of firmware updates through PSN when I could have just installed them off my latest game disk. Why? Maybe because those updates AREN'T THERE.

I'm calling it right now as being a fabrication until someone comes up with a title that does both.

I'm sure in the future there will be games that have updates on disc: games requiring Move support and 3D support, which obviously won't run with older firmware that predate the code supporting these features. These aren't the games in question.



Icyedge on 09 May 2010
greenmedic88 said:
Here's an update regarding alleged forced firmware updates.

Super SF IV does not require a firmware update. I currently have it playing on a 60GB SKU with 3.15 firmware installed.

Also, there is no option to install the current firmware update on the game disk. Not in the game itself, or through the Update Via Storage Media in the System Settings. I don't know where this information is coming from. No surprise here as it would be a first among the 50 or so games I've run on the PS3.

So as of right now, that information is made up, as in imaginary and non-existent until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned.

All I can say right now is that I'm sure 3D support and Move support WILL require a firmware update, but everyone should already know this. The code to enable those features didn't exist when 3.15 was the current firmware. So anyone using what is now an unsupported feature with Other OS installation simply won't have access to these new features.

As for all other games based upon the original (as of 3.15) feature set; still waiting for that game that will allow me to update my firmware off disk. After someone can confirm this exists, then I'd like confirmation that a firmware update is required to run any game.

Ok thanks for the confirmation.



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sieanr on 09 May 2010
akuseru said:
alephnull said:
Icyedge said:

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

Warhawk

To play Warhawk, you would need PSN access, something you are not entitled to have. PSN is not a part of the PS3 when you buy it, but it is simply a service that Sony offers for free to customers who have bought their product. I bet they inform you about the need PSN access when you buy or start up Warhawk.

There is nothing to complain about, yet... Since future firmware is not part of the initial purchase, is that even something we can complain about? I mean, you are not forced to use firmware 3.21, it's a choice you make. You bought your games and own them and are able to play them, but future games? Are you entitled to be able to play future games? Games with 3D support? Or basically any game that require new features brought by firmware? I'm not sure about this. I mean, I have bought a PS3 and many, many games, but am I entitled to be able to buy new games and play them? Let's say I want to play Red Dead Redemption and that this game requires firmware 3.30 to be able to play it, how is it my legal right to be able to play this game if I don't meet the requirements? I'm not forced to buy this game and play it, it's a choice I make. You either meet the game's requirements or not. You still haven't bought the game since it's not released, and so far, my PS3 let me play all the games I have paid for, sans the use of PSN.

Is this guy fucking serious?

Yeah, lets let companies arbitrarily decide what games I should and shouldn't be able to play. Didin't pay for a premium firmware update? Too bad, you can't play any new games. Not the companies fault after all, you should've known better, plus no one forced you to buy the game. Thats the precedent this sort of thing sets.

But hey, lets put the rights of companies before the rights of consumers!



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

Icyedge on 09 May 2010
sieanr said:
akuseru said:
alephnull said:
Icyedge said:

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

Warhawk

To play Warhawk, you would need PSN access, something you are not entitled to have. PSN is not a part of the PS3 when you buy it, but it is simply a service that Sony offers for free to customers who have bought their product. I bet they inform you about the need PSN access when you buy or start up Warhawk.

There is nothing to complain about, yet... Since future firmware is not part of the initial purchase, is that even something we can complain about? I mean, you are not forced to use firmware 3.21, it's a choice you make. You bought your games and own them and are able to play them, but future games? Are you entitled to be able to play future games? Games with 3D support? Or basically any game that require new features brought by firmware? I'm not sure about this. I mean, I have bought a PS3 and many, many games, but am I entitled to be able to buy new games and play them? Let's say I want to play Red Dead Redemption and that this game requires firmware 3.30 to be able to play it, how is it my legal right to be able to play this game if I don't meet the requirements? I'm not forced to buy this game and play it, it's a choice I make. You either meet the game's requirements or not. You still haven't bought the game since it's not released, and so far, my PS3 let me play all the games I have paid for, sans the use of PSN.

Is this guy fucking serious?

Yeah, lets let companies arbitrarily decide what games I should and shouldn't be able to play. Didin't pay for a premium firmware update? Too bad, you can't play any new games. Not the companies fault after all, you should've known better, plus no one forced you to buy the game. Thats the precedent this sort of thing sets.

But hey, lets put the rights of companies before the rights of consumers!

 

Your bolding phrases out of their context. Hes talking about future games that requires some kind of add-on or new technology. PSN games on the other hand have contracts that allow to ban, restrict or close servers without penalty. Tough, that doesnt mean I agree Sony is doing the right thing, its definitively not politically correct. It also create a bad precedant. Consumers are in their rights to question where does it start and where does it stop. Still doesnt mean its illegual at the moment.



thranx on 22 May 2010

http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=80107 (firmware on disc RDR, must install to play)

so if this is correct perhaps sony does have to worry, and does this change any ones opinions now?



Icyedge on 22 May 2010

Thats a dumbass move, the worst thing they could do.



Kasz216 on 22 May 2010

And this was why I stopped posting in this thread.

I knew I was right, I had proof via email, people wouldn't believe it... so it was just a matter of waiting for the firmware to ship to developers and waiting for a game to require it.

So yeah. I was right.

As for whether this will effect the lawsuit... once again, it depends on the nebuleous often up in the air rulings of judges.