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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony sued over Linux removal, Case documents surface

Icyedge on 30 April 2010
thranx said:
i really can not believe all consumers aren't outraged by what sony did. or what you guys would let other companies do. man just let all your rights be taken away. can not wait for this court verdict though, all of this arguing in the forums seems like it doesn't matter compared to the court decision.

Being righteous, calm and reasonable doesnt mean you think what they did is alright from a consumer point of view. But sincerely the sueing was way too fast. They will loose and then it will create a precedant in favor of Sony which will help them if they ever do something really illegual related to this. We have all the rights to be outrage, boycott their products, hate them. But arguing they did something illegual is a lack of understandment of the situation. Let get back to each other when we know the court decision ;).



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Icyedge on 30 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
XGamer0611 said:
This lawsuit has legs. This simple fact that Sony sold the feature and promoted it only to remove it shows they did it in their own interest. Also, the fact that the update removed the feature after the hobbyist Geohot announced he had hacked the PS3 to make backup software (pirated games). Sony was protecting their interest at the sake of the consumer. One thing that the lawsuit did not mention was the fact that people using the other OS feature could lose their data (if not backed up) if they updated to the latest update. As the update would completely make the Linux partition unavailable.

They did not removed Linux from anyone as you say. They removed PSN from people who wanna kept Linux, which is very different. So no the lawsuit dont have legs.

Uh, they didn't JUST remove PSN.  They also removed the ability to play some newer games.  You need to have updated firmware to play some newer games.  Sony says so themselves.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

In otherwords... you have to choose between being able to play games or not have linux.

At the moment they didnt restrict access to any normal PS3 games, if that happen then people will have reason to sue them. Sure they stated that not updating may result in unability to play games. The way I see this is as example PSMoves games or 3D games will require an update. Sony is not legally bind to give you the ability to play games using new tech and device since it didnt came with your PS3 purchase (PSmove and 3D support). Now if their lawyers are dumb enough to tell Sony to go ahead and restrict access to new normal PS3 games then go ahead and sue them because it will infact go against most countries laws.

Last I checked, new games tend to come with frimware updates and force you to update.  It happened the last time I bought a game.  I can't imagine this update will be any different.  Otherwise people who can't go online will be stuck with the "unsafe" firmware.

 

Yes when theres a major change in the PS3 new game may ask to update. This can be easily done directly from the game disc, the update would install the necessarily files without removing Linux but you would still be unable to connect to PSN. Im sure this is what they will do because it wouldnt make sense and be illegual to force people to remove Linux for playing normal PS3. Conclusion, wait for them to do it before claiming they are illegual. Up until then, you can complaint against it and boycott their products if you want, that is our right as consumer. I dont like what they did either, but in perspective theres nothing illegual until now.

Actually, it's probably still illegal.  It's just a matter of how the courts will rule it though.  Either way, they have stated 3.21 WILL be on discs.

Again..

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

No theres nothing illegual until they force you to remove linux to use a function that came with your PS3. When they do that, then sue them. Right now theres no new game that require to upgrade and remove Linux. Also a new upgrade will not necessarily mean removing Linux, once in a while they can easily do 2 types of update. Anyway, I dont know why we are arguing because until they do that you can still use everything that came with your PS3, so its not illegual. Damn, im even a bit freaked out that we are so much use to the internet that its considered normal and legally mandatory to have an online service with a game console.



Kasz216 on 30 April 2010
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
XGamer0611 said:
This lawsuit has legs. This simple fact that Sony sold the feature and promoted it only to remove it shows they did it in their own interest. Also, the fact that the update removed the feature after the hobbyist Geohot announced he had hacked the PS3 to make backup software (pirated games). Sony was protecting their interest at the sake of the consumer. One thing that the lawsuit did not mention was the fact that people using the other OS feature could lose their data (if not backed up) if they updated to the latest update. As the update would completely make the Linux partition unavailable.

They did not removed Linux from anyone as you say. They removed PSN from people who wanna kept Linux, which is very different. So no the lawsuit dont have legs.

Uh, they didn't JUST remove PSN.  They also removed the ability to play some newer games.  You need to have updated firmware to play some newer games.  Sony says so themselves.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

In otherwords... you have to choose between being able to play games or not have linux.

At the moment they didnt restrict access to any normal PS3 games, if that happen then people will have reason to sue them. Sure they stated that not updating may result in unability to play games. The way I see this is as example PSMoves games or 3D games will require an update. Sony is not legally bind to give you the ability to play games using new tech and device since it didnt came with your PS3 purchase (PSmove and 3D support). Now if their lawyers are dumb enough to tell Sony to go ahead and restrict access to new normal PS3 games then go ahead and sue them because it will infact go against most countries laws.

Last I checked, new games tend to come with frimware updates and force you to update.  It happened the last time I bought a game.  I can't imagine this update will be any different.  Otherwise people who can't go online will be stuck with the "unsafe" firmware.

 

Yes when theres a major change in the PS3 new game may ask to update. This can be easily done directly from the game disc, the update would install the necessarily files without removing Linux but you would still be unable to connect to PSN. Im sure this is what they will do because it wouldnt make sense and be illegual to force people to remove Linux for playing normal PS3. Conclusion, wait for them to do it before claiming they are illegual. Up until then, you can complaint against it and boycott their products if you want, that is our right as consumer. I dont like what they did either, but in perspective theres nothing illegual until now.

Actually, it's probably still illegal.  It's just a matter of how the courts will rule it though.  Either way, they have stated 3.21 WILL be on discs.

Again..

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

No theres nothing illegual until they force you to remove linux to use a function that came with your PS3. When they do that, then sue them. Right now theres no new game that require to upgrade and remove Linux. Also a new upgrade will not necessarily mean removing Linux, once in a while they can easily do 2 types of update. Anyway, I dont know why we are arguing because until they do that you can still use everything that came with your PS3, so its not illegual. Damn, im even a bit freaked out that we are so much use to the internet that its considered normal and legally mandatory to have an online service with a game console.

They are forcing you to remove it before you can play new games... that would be forcing you no?



Icyedge on 30 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
XGamer0611 said:
This lawsuit has legs. This simple fact that Sony sold the feature and promoted it only to remove it shows they did it in their own interest. Also, the fact that the update removed the feature after the hobbyist Geohot announced he had hacked the PS3 to make backup software (pirated games). Sony was protecting their interest at the sake of the consumer. One thing that the lawsuit did not mention was the fact that people using the other OS feature could lose their data (if not backed up) if they updated to the latest update. As the update would completely make the Linux partition unavailable.

They did not removed Linux from anyone as you say. They removed PSN from people who wanna kept Linux, which is very different. So no the lawsuit dont have legs.

Uh, they didn't JUST remove PSN.  They also removed the ability to play some newer games.  You need to have updated firmware to play some newer games.  Sony says so themselves.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

In otherwords... you have to choose between being able to play games or not have linux.

At the moment they didnt restrict access to any normal PS3 games, if that happen then people will have reason to sue them. Sure they stated that not updating may result in unability to play games. The way I see this is as example PSMoves games or 3D games will require an update. Sony is not legally bind to give you the ability to play games using new tech and device since it didnt came with your PS3 purchase (PSmove and 3D support). Now if their lawyers are dumb enough to tell Sony to go ahead and restrict access to new normal PS3 games then go ahead and sue them because it will infact go against most countries laws.

Last I checked, new games tend to come with frimware updates and force you to update.  It happened the last time I bought a game.  I can't imagine this update will be any different.  Otherwise people who can't go online will be stuck with the "unsafe" firmware.

 

Yes when theres a major change in the PS3 new game may ask to update. This can be easily done directly from the game disc, the update would install the necessarily files without removing Linux but you would still be unable to connect to PSN. Im sure this is what they will do because it wouldnt make sense and be illegual to force people to remove Linux for playing normal PS3. Conclusion, wait for them to do it before claiming they are illegual. Up until then, you can complaint against it and boycott their products if you want, that is our right as consumer. I dont like what they did either, but in perspective theres nothing illegual until now.

Actually, it's probably still illegal.  It's just a matter of how the courts will rule it though.  Either way, they have stated 3.21 WILL be on discs.

Again..

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

No theres nothing illegual until they force you to remove linux to use a function that came with your PS3. When they do that, then sue them. Right now theres no new game that require to upgrade and remove Linux. Also a new upgrade will not necessarily mean removing Linux, once in a while they can easily do 2 types of update. Anyway, I dont know why we are arguing because until they do that you can still use everything that came with your PS3, so its not illegual. Damn, im even a bit freaked out that we are so much use to the internet that its considered normal and legally mandatory to have an online service with a game console.

They are forcing you to remove it before you can play new games... that would be forcing you no?

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.



Kasz216 on 30 April 2010
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
XGamer0611 said:
This lawsuit has legs. This simple fact that Sony sold the feature and promoted it only to remove it shows they did it in their own interest. Also, the fact that the update removed the feature after the hobbyist Geohot announced he had hacked the PS3 to make backup software (pirated games). Sony was protecting their interest at the sake of the consumer. One thing that the lawsuit did not mention was the fact that people using the other OS feature could lose their data (if not backed up) if they updated to the latest update. As the update would completely make the Linux partition unavailable.

They did not removed Linux from anyone as you say. They removed PSN from people who wanna kept Linux, which is very different. So no the lawsuit dont have legs.

Uh, they didn't JUST remove PSN.  They also removed the ability to play some newer games.  You need to have updated firmware to play some newer games.  Sony says so themselves.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

In otherwords... you have to choose between being able to play games or not have linux.

At the moment they didnt restrict access to any normal PS3 games, if that happen then people will have reason to sue them. Sure they stated that not updating may result in unability to play games. The way I see this is as example PSMoves games or 3D games will require an update. Sony is not legally bind to give you the ability to play games using new tech and device since it didnt came with your PS3 purchase (PSmove and 3D support). Now if their lawyers are dumb enough to tell Sony to go ahead and restrict access to new normal PS3 games then go ahead and sue them because it will infact go against most countries laws.

Last I checked, new games tend to come with frimware updates and force you to update.  It happened the last time I bought a game.  I can't imagine this update will be any different.  Otherwise people who can't go online will be stuck with the "unsafe" firmware.

 

Yes when theres a major change in the PS3 new game may ask to update. This can be easily done directly from the game disc, the update would install the necessarily files without removing Linux but you would still be unable to connect to PSN. Im sure this is what they will do because it wouldnt make sense and be illegual to force people to remove Linux for playing normal PS3. Conclusion, wait for them to do it before claiming they are illegual. Up until then, you can complaint against it and boycott their products if you want, that is our right as consumer. I dont like what they did either, but in perspective theres nothing illegual until now.

Actually, it's probably still illegal.  It's just a matter of how the courts will rule it though.  Either way, they have stated 3.21 WILL be on discs.

Again..

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

No theres nothing illegual until they force you to remove linux to use a function that came with your PS3. When they do that, then sue them. Right now theres no new game that require to upgrade and remove Linux. Also a new upgrade will not necessarily mean removing Linux, once in a while they can easily do 2 types of update. Anyway, I dont know why we are arguing because until they do that you can still use everything that came with your PS3, so its not illegual. Damn, im even a bit freaked out that we are so much use to the internet that its considered normal and legally mandatory to have an online service with a game console.

They are forcing you to remove it before you can play new games... that would be forcing you no?

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

They've already stated... very clearly that they will infact do this.



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Icyedge on 30 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
Kasz216 said:
Icyedge said:
XGamer0611 said:
This lawsuit has legs. This simple fact that Sony sold the feature and promoted it only to remove it shows they did it in their own interest. Also, the fact that the update removed the feature after the hobbyist Geohot announced he had hacked the PS3 to make backup software (pirated games). Sony was protecting their interest at the sake of the consumer. One thing that the lawsuit did not mention was the fact that people using the other OS feature could lose their data (if not backed up) if they updated to the latest update. As the update would completely make the Linux partition unavailable.

They did not removed Linux from anyone as you say. They removed PSN from people who wanna kept Linux, which is very different. So no the lawsuit dont have legs.

Uh, they didn't JUST remove PSN.  They also removed the ability to play some newer games.  You need to have updated firmware to play some newer games.  Sony says so themselves.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

In otherwords... you have to choose between being able to play games or not have linux.

At the moment they didnt restrict access to any normal PS3 games, if that happen then people will have reason to sue them. Sure they stated that not updating may result in unability to play games. The way I see this is as example PSMoves games or 3D games will require an update. Sony is not legally bind to give you the ability to play games using new tech and device since it didnt came with your PS3 purchase (PSmove and 3D support). Now if their lawyers are dumb enough to tell Sony to go ahead and restrict access to new normal PS3 games then go ahead and sue them because it will infact go against most countries laws.

Last I checked, new games tend to come with frimware updates and force you to update.  It happened the last time I bought a game.  I can't imagine this update will be any different.  Otherwise people who can't go online will be stuck with the "unsafe" firmware.

 

Yes when theres a major change in the PS3 new game may ask to update. This can be easily done directly from the game disc, the update would install the necessarily files without removing Linux but you would still be unable to connect to PSN. Im sure this is what they will do because it wouldnt make sense and be illegual to force people to remove Linux for playing normal PS3. Conclusion, wait for them to do it before claiming they are illegual. Up until then, you can complaint against it and boycott their products if you want, that is our right as consumer. I dont like what they did either, but in perspective theres nothing illegual until now.

Actually, it's probably still illegal.  It's just a matter of how the courts will rule it though.  Either way, they have stated 3.21 WILL be on discs.

Again..

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

No theres nothing illegual until they force you to remove linux to use a function that came with your PS3. When they do that, then sue them. Right now theres no new game that require to upgrade and remove Linux. Also a new upgrade will not necessarily mean removing Linux, once in a while they can easily do 2 types of update. Anyway, I dont know why we are arguing because until they do that you can still use everything that came with your PS3, so its not illegual. Damn, im even a bit freaked out that we are so much use to the internet that its considered normal and legally mandatory to have an online service with a game console.

They are forcing you to remove it before you can play new games... that would be forcing you no?

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

They've already stated... very clearly that they will infact do this.

 

No they never stated that Linux will have be remove to play regular games. Stating that some games may require to update and remove Linux doesnt mean this will apply to regular game. All im saying is, until they do that nothing is illegual. Even if a PR say: "yes we will force you to remove Linux in order to play all new games" we still need to wait that those games are release before saying they are illegual. What PR says is not always what happens, but anyway in this case they could easily mean that update will be required for new games requiring new tech. In the end we agree on the same thing: Sony would be illegual if they force you to remove Linux in order to play a regular PS3 game. Im almost 100% sure this will not happen tough. But that doesnt mean I agree with them on their business practice.



alephnull on 30 April 2010
Icyedge said:

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

Warhawk



xrobx on 30 April 2010

you people aren't judges, the judge will decide if it was legal or not and that's the only opinion that matters. i for one hope they are forced to bring back other os or pay millions for ripping off their customers.



i will always stay cold

ssj12 on 30 April 2010
alephnull said:
Icyedge said:

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

Warhawk

MAG Patch 1.05



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Dgc1808 on 30 April 2010
alephnull said:
Icyedge said:

For the third of fourth times: no theres not a game on the market that force you to remove Linux in order to play it. Do you read my post? it was really clear. Like I stated many times, yes if they do force you to remove Linux to play a regular PS3 games that would be illegual.

Warhawk

Doesn't SONY have the right to cut off network service for that game at any time? Like how EA just did recently for quite a few games.



4 ≈ One