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Forums - Gaming - Why does game storytelling have such low standards? [MGS4, HL2, etc.]

theprof00 said:
What always baffles me is how games like half life 2 and bioshock can be considered as having great storylines. To me, those stories are so contrived and "safe" to the point where it hardly feels as if there is a story at all.
MGS3 is the best story game of all time, though, and MGS4 is really great too. However, the problem with mgs4's story is that in order to actually experience the narrative properly, you need to have played the previous 3.

Half Life 2to me was merely innovative way to tell a story in videogames. And Alyx Vance :P

Bioshock to me reminds me of Blade Runner (My favorite movie), where the words don't tell the story, the atmosphere, gadgets you find, and sparingly speaking do.

So I guess maybe it shouldn't be called a  story necesarrily if you dont want to, but the Atmosphere, History, Events that occur in a place around a person, without people telling you want happened but you, learning things based on actions not words. That was my interpretation of bioshock anywyas.

 

 



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thelifatree said:
theprof00 said:
What always baffles me is how games like half life 2 and bioshock can be considered as having great storylines. To me, those stories are so contrived and "safe" to the point where it hardly feels as if there is a story at all.
MGS3 is the best story game of all time, though, and MGS4 is really great too. However, the problem with mgs4's story is that in order to actually experience the narrative properly, you need to have played the previous 3.

Half Life 2to me was merely innovative way to tell a story in videogames. And Alyx Vance :P

Bioshock to me reminds me of Blade Runner (My favorite movie), where the words don't tell the story, the atmosphere, gadgets you find, and sparingly speaking do.

So I guess maybe it shouldn't be called a  story necesarrily if you dont want to, but the Atmosphere, History, Events that occur in a place around a person, without people telling you want happened but you, learning things based on actions not words. That was my interpretation of bioshock anywyas.

 

 

Maybe the fact that the story of a game is really more than the words is what trips up the exceution of many videogame plots.

 

and I am trying to think if I have enjoyed a game with a porrly done story that still was enjoyable.  Maybe Cursed Mountain will count. I am not very far in, but they do interesting things with the game play and seem like they might have some ineresting things going on in the story. I have only played for an hour or two so it is hard toreally make up my mind on if i enjoy the game. The story is told so badly though. They use simple still frame cutsecenes with terrible acting. If I end up liking the game, I will still be crignging through every cutscene.



"But as always, technology refused to be dignity's bitch."--Vance DeGeneres

 

http://cheezburger.com/danatblair/lolz/View/4772264960

thelifatree said:
theprof00 said:
What always baffles me is how games like half life 2 and bioshock can be considered as having great storylines. To me, those stories are so contrived and "safe" to the point where it hardly feels as if there is a story at all.
MGS3 is the best story game of all time, though, and MGS4 is really great too. However, the problem with mgs4's story is that in order to actually experience the narrative properly, you need to have played the previous 3.

Half Life 2to me was merely innovative way to tell a story in videogames. And Alyx Vance :P

Bioshock to me reminds me of Blade Runner (My favorite movie), where the words don't tell the story, the atmosphere, gadgets you find, and sparingly speaking do.

So I guess maybe it shouldn't be called a  story necesarrily if you dont want to, but the Atmosphere, History, Events that occur in a place around a person, without people telling you want happened but you, learning things based on actions not words. That was my interpretation of bioshock anywyas.

 

 

Hey, I'm not saying they're bad stories, I'm just saying that it's like being a lakers or yankees fan. It's applauding a by-the-books, heavily-produced formula. Something in my counter-culture blood just rejects it.



valen200 said:
thelifatree said:
theprof00 said:
What always baffles me is how games like half life 2 and bioshock can be considered as having great storylines. To me, those stories are so contrived and "safe" to the point where it hardly feels as if there is a story at all.
MGS3 is the best story game of all time, though, and MGS4 is really great too. However, the problem with mgs4's story is that in order to actually experience the narrative properly, you need to have played the previous 3.

Half Life 2to me was merely innovative way to tell a story in videogames. And Alyx Vance :P

Bioshock to me reminds me of Blade Runner (My favorite movie), where the words don't tell the story, the atmosphere, gadgets you find, and sparingly speaking do.

So I guess maybe it shouldn't be called a  story necesarrily if you dont want to, but the Atmosphere, History, Events that occur in a place around a person, without people telling you want happened but you, learning things based on actions not words. That was my interpretation of bioshock anywyas.

 

 

Maybe the fact that the story of a game is really more than the words is what trips up the exceution of many videogame plots.

 

and I am trying to think if I have enjoyed a game with a porrly done story that still was enjoyable.  Maybe Cursed Mountain will count. I am not very far in, but they do interesting things with the game play and seem like they might have some ineresting things going on in the story. I have only played for an hour or two so it is hard toreally make up my mind on if i enjoy the game. The story is told so badly though. They use simple still frame cutsecenes with terrible acting. If I end up liking the game, I will still be crignging through every cutscene.

I can think of one... Crysis, It was godawful, storywise but fun, but it wasn't wordy, Are you talking about a game that forces you to listen to conversation but has good gameplay?is that what your talking about. A wordy game that had a terrible story and didn't suck, I can't think of one. A game with a story I liked but gameplay was aweful... Dirge of Cerberus (anime-y,). But, I wouldn't have played had it not been for its predecessor.

But games that force you to watch 30 minute cutscenes are terrible... FF had that.... and I loved the cutscenes but I always thought htey should have the opportunity to skip


But most games now, should and do let you skip cutscenes even FFXIII and MGS let you... obviously you can't in Heavy Rain but...



Count me in that Story has become far too important than game play.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

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thelifatree said:
valen200 said:
thelifatree said:
theprof00 said:
What always baffles me is how games like half life 2 and bioshock can be considered as having great storylines. To me, those stories are so contrived and "safe" to the point where it hardly feels as if there is a story at all.
MGS3 is the best story game of all time, though, and MGS4 is really great too. However, the problem with mgs4's story is that in order to actually experience the narrative properly, you need to have played the previous 3.

Half Life 2to me was merely innovative way to tell a story in videogames. And Alyx Vance :P

Bioshock to me reminds me of Blade Runner (My favorite movie), where the words don't tell the story, the atmosphere, gadgets you find, and sparingly speaking do.

So I guess maybe it shouldn't be called a  story necesarrily if you dont want to, but the Atmosphere, History, Events that occur in a place around a person, without people telling you want happened but you, learning things based on actions not words. That was my interpretation of bioshock anywyas.

 

 

Maybe the fact that the story of a game is really more than the words is what trips up the exceution of many videogame plots.

 

and I am trying to think if I have enjoyed a game with a porrly done story that still was enjoyable.  Maybe Cursed Mountain will count. I am not very far in, but they do interesting things with the game play and seem like they might have some ineresting things going on in the story. I have only played for an hour or two so it is hard toreally make up my mind on if i enjoy the game. The story is told so badly though. They use simple still frame cutsecenes with terrible acting. If I end up liking the game, I will still be crignging through every cutscene.

I can think of one... Crysis, It was godawful, storywise but fun, but it wasn't wordy, Are you talking about a game that forces you to listen to conversation but has good gameplay?is that what your talking about. A wordy game that had a terrible story and didn't suck, I can't think of one. A game with a story I liked but gameplay was aweful... Dirge of Cerberus (anime-y,). But, I wouldn't have played had it not been for its predecessor.

But games that force you to watch 30 minute cutscenes are terrible... FF had that.... and I loved the cutscenes but I always thought htey should have the opportunity to skip


But most games now, should and do let you skip cutscenes even FFXIII and MGS let you... obviously you can't in Heavy Rain but...

I never had a pc that could play crysis. clong cutscenes were good in their day, but are dated now. I still remember being wowed at how cinematic FF 7 & * were with the cutscenes. AT the time, that was new. Now, it would be really annoying to have to wait, unless I was really wanting to see the vid.



"But as always, technology refused to be dignity's bitch."--Vance DeGeneres

 

http://cheezburger.com/danatblair/lolz/View/4772264960

scottie said:
thelifatree said:
A really high percentage of movies have a bad story. Such as avatar, overly simple, incredibley stereotyped and it's the highest grosisng movie ever.


Haha, Avatar has a great story :P too bad it stole it!

 

WOW i dunno exactly pocahontas story but that seemed at least very close... thanks for the Lols

 

 

and to the op:

I agree for HL... never understood why gordon was revered.

Thanks for killing any little hype I still had for MSG4.....



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

Hephaestos said:
scottie said:
thelifatree said:
A really high percentage of movies have a bad story. Such as avatar, overly simple, incredibley stereotyped and it's the highest grosisng movie ever.


Haha, Avatar has a great story :P too bad it stole it!

 

WOW i dunno exactly pocahontas story but that seemed at least very close... thanks for the Lols

 

 

and to the op:

I agree for HL... never understood why gordon was revered.

Thanks for killing any little hype I still had for MSG4.....

Have you played it? Or any of the other Metal Gears. even with all the problems MGS4 had, I still and many others still think its one of the very best games for thePS3

The gameplay's Outstanding, in MGS4, And hell the story's entertaining as hell the first time through it.

The story just doesn't stand up to multiple playthroughs as well as the other ones. As say MGS1, but I think that more has to do with it having half hour cutscenes in it, instead of smaller, frequent entertaining bits. And him trying to put to much story into one game. And theres a tad bit more plot holes

 



thelifatree said:

Have you played it? Or any of the other Metal Gears. even with all the problems MGS4 had, I still and many others still think its one of the very best games for thePS3

The gameplay's Outstanding, in MGS4, And hell the story's entertaining as hell the first time through it.

The story just doesn't stand up to multiple playthroughs as well as the other ones. As say MGS1, but I think that more has to do with it having half hour cutscenes in it, instead of smaller, frequent entertaining bits. And him trying to put to much story into one game. And theres a tad bit more plot holes

 

played 1 and 2, didn't play consoles when 3 came out :p

 

I'll still consider it the day I get a PS3. (as a 3D BR player ;-p)



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makingmusic476 said:

I think the first response to Richard's editorial is a must read for all interested in this topic as well, as it touches on the nature of game design and how game design can have a distinct impact on the way a story unfolds:

By Sean Riley on April 17, 2010 - 3:58am.

I think there's an element in your analysis that you're forgetting here -- how is the information given to the player? This is also a big part of storytelling, and it's a crucial element in games, where the delivery moreso than other media is more uncertain; audience controlled.

To my mind, Bioshock is a pretty poor example of good writing. Its story is told too often in clumsy fashion; use of audio diaries, ghost sequence flashbacks, etc. By contrast, I'd give Half-Life 2 much higher marks, where its storytelling does come in dialogue, true, but more often than not in the motion around you, broadcasts from Dr. Breen, etc. It's much more fluid and well controlled.

That said, neither would be in my top shelf marks for great game storytelling. Those three would be Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, and Far Cry 2.

Ico and Shadow of the Colossus both get the exact same thing right: The story is small, but delivered upfront and then told, endlessly, in the gameplay itself. Ico creates its premise swiftly: The story of two people, trapped in a castle, come to rely upon each other. Then the entire game devotes itself to reinforcing that idea; the usual lack of enemies (and that those enemies who do appear try to separate the two characters) and wide empty spaces, the way that the models are animated to emphasise their togetherness (notice the way save points work, with the characters waking up after having fallen asleep on each other's shoulders; or the way the girl looks at the boy's hand if her hand is held). Shadow of the Colossus creates its faustian bargain (Sixteen lives in exchange for one) and then depopulates its world into only those sixteen, makes those creatures beautiful, and visibly degrades its main character upon each death.

Far Cry 2 understands this model and subverts it slightly by only revealing its point in words halfway in. None the less, it's all told in the gameplay: Give you a clear objective, and then set none of your missions as leading you to completing it, while ramping up the game's brutality and violence in every possible fashion. The player comes to realise the story not through the cut-scenes (which are mostly red herrings) but in gameplay itself. Its Heart of Darkness inspired journey to the dark side is left entirely to the player to realise.

Interesting. I quit Far Cry 2 after a few hours since I heard so many people complain that it's boring and repetitive. Maybe I should complete it.

Does anyone know how many hours a play through of Farcry 2 takes?