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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why does game storytelling have such low standards? [MGS4, HL2, etc.]

g-value on 18 April 2010
Xxain said:
thelifatree said:
Xxain said:
richardhutnik said:
Mirson said:

So there you have it. Seven games, all of which I've seen receive accolades for storytelling, but only four of which deserve it. What about you? What games have taken an unrelenting crap on your cake?

---------------

Read more here: http://www.gamecritics.com/richard-naik/why-does-game-storytelling-have-such-low-standards

What REALLY irritates me is that people expect game, which is an interactive form of entertainment, to morph itself into a device for telling stories, and expecting it to be EASY.  It isn't easy.  Games aren't intended to be devices to tell stories, and that isn't there point.  Oh, they CAN be used like that, but the benchmark for a great game is NOT that it has a great story.  The benchmark is how well it plays.  A game scores points if it can tell a story.  But, I will assure you the videogame industry is going to bankrupt itself if it feels it HAS to compete with Hollywood, TV and the book industry, to be a medium for telling the best stories.  It will not only drive up its current costs, but throw into it the entire array of what is needed to make a movie work, and add that to it.  Soon, the arms race to make storytelling the TOP element, will cause games to average a cost of $100+ million to make.

Anyone here think the videogame industry will survive if perceived demands of what is needed to make a game that sells, drives the costs to $100+ million?  The surest way is to cause the videogame industry to fold is to require it get into the movie making business, and have costs to match.  But if you don't push for the top voice talent, director and so on, expect then the production value to be less. 

This being said, a reason why you get bad stories is that the talent isn't there to use the medium to actually TELL a story.  People don't have the skills, so you get the likes of Kojima producing what FEELS like a blockbuster, but is a mess in regards to the actual story, with memorable points that don't fit togeter as a whole.

Great Great Great!.... I agree with this, Video Games are meant to played and NOT waxthed, this gen has been especially bad with Story for some reason becoming more important than the actual game, and its ridiculous. This is wh developers should focus on creating engaging over the over bloated, overrated Epic stor.

Disagree, PS1 had them, did you play xenogears... 45 minute cutscenes.. its just instead of watching pretty things like in metal gear. You watched pressing x button.

Plus I agree 45 minute cutscenes are too long

im not sure what your debating? im not denying that past gens didnt have them its just this gen its been a priority focus. Xenogears is fantastic in storyline but look at the effect it hand on the game. Xxtreamely linear and controlled

No. The reason why the 2nd disc of Xenogears was like that is because at the time, Final Fantasy 8 was in production. FF8's development team was running low on money so Square decided to take money out of Xenogear's buget to help fund FF8.



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thelifatree on 18 April 2010
valen200 said:
thelifatree said:
valen200 said:
you can get away with no story, like mario, but if you are attempting to have a story it needs to be passable. thought there are times when a well told story makes the game less fun to play. Fallout 3 has a well done story with subtle foreshadowing and growth as a character. If you play good, at least, you grow from an innocent thrust into the harsh world and gradually become it's savior. and then you frickin have no choice to be a good character and survive the story you die a hero, despite have the good guy exclusive mutant who is immune to radiation is with you. they were so excited to tell their story that they robbed you of a logical course of action to shoehorn you into it. If i were watching a movie with the orginal pre-dlc hero ending of Fallout 3 it would be a touching moment. When playing it , i feel cheated.

I mean, Fallout 3 didn't have a good story. It had liam neeson who is awesome. It had a great world. With interesting characters in it. Much like MGS4

actuall6, i enjopyed the story up until the end. it utterly ruined the game for me, and i still really dislike it. it was a poor choice to force that move.

 

 

Well I agree, you like the story a notch more than I did... but that I think has to do with just taste yes?

But yeah the move where you have a mutant who could not die. But instead to be dramatic they made you commit suicide for no reason notched the game lower on the story for me.

But it was still one of my favorite games this gen... anyways

I completely agree the story needs to be passable. But, there's also storys like MGS4 (though this is a bad story) that are convuluted and a Japanese way of telling stories and don't always make complete sense and then people say that they are aweful from the american point of view. But some of those stories have certain meanings and stuff that makes more sense or have meaning make to me (hence my heavily populated favorites of FF)... because I'm heavily japanese influenced as I am Japanese. Sorry if this didn't make sense

I'm just saying games like crysis, gears, killzone don't cut it story wise



thelifatree on 18 April 2010
g-value said:
Xxain said:
thelifatree said:
Xxain said:
richardhutnik said:
Mirson said:

So there you have it. Seven games, all of which I've seen receive accolades for storytelling, but only four of which deserve it. What about you? What games have taken an unrelenting crap on your cake?

---------------

Read more here: http://www.gamecritics.com/richard-naik/why-does-game-storytelling-have-such-low-standards

What REALLY irritates me is that people expect game, which is an interactive form of entertainment, to morph itself into a device for telling stories, and expecting it to be EASY.  It isn't easy.  Games aren't intended to be devices to tell stories, and that isn't there point.  Oh, they CAN be used like that, but the benchmark for a great game is NOT that it has a great story.  The benchmark is how well it plays.  A game scores points if it can tell a story.  But, I will assure you the videogame industry is going to bankrupt itself if it feels it HAS to compete with Hollywood, TV and the book industry, to be a medium for telling the best stories.  It will not only drive up its current costs, but throw into it the entire array of what is needed to make a movie work, and add that to it.  Soon, the arms race to make storytelling the TOP element, will cause games to average a cost of $100+ million to make.

Anyone here think the videogame industry will survive if perceived demands of what is needed to make a game that sells, drives the costs to $100+ million?  The surest way is to cause the videogame industry to fold is to require it get into the movie making business, and have costs to match.  But if you don't push for the top voice talent, director and so on, expect then the production value to be less. 

This being said, a reason why you get bad stories is that the talent isn't there to use the medium to actually TELL a story.  People don't have the skills, so you get the likes of Kojima producing what FEELS like a blockbuster, but is a mess in regards to the actual story, with memorable points that don't fit togeter as a whole.

Great Great Great!.... I agree with this, Video Games are meant to played and NOT waxthed, this gen has been especially bad with Story for some reason becoming more important than the actual game, and its ridiculous. This is wh developers should focus on creating engaging over the over bloated, overrated Epic stor.

Disagree, PS1 had them, did you play xenogears... 45 minute cutscenes.. its just instead of watching pretty things like in metal gear. You watched pressing x button.

Plus I agree 45 minute cutscenes are too long

im not sure what your debating? im not denying that past gens didnt have them its just this gen its been a priority focus. Xenogears is fantastic in storyline but look at the effect it hand on the game. Xxtreamely linear and controlled

No. The reason why the 2nd disc of Xenogears was like that is because at the time, Final Fantasy 8 was in production. FF8's development team was running low on money so Square decided to take money out of Xenogear's buget to help fund FF8.

Like I guess I only PLay JRPG's  WRPG's And Drakes fortune God of War and Demon Soul's I haven't noticed a difference in epicness vs past ones...

maybe other genres. but i know nothing about that



Xxain on 18 April 2010
g-value said:
Xxain said:
thelifatree said:
Xxain said:
richardhutnik said:
Mirson said:

So there you have it. Seven games, all of which I've seen receive accolades for storytelling, but only four of which deserve it. What about you? What games have taken an unrelenting crap on your cake?

---------------

Read more here: http://www.gamecritics.com/richard-naik/why-does-game-storytelling-have-such-low-standards

What REALLY irritates me is that people expect game, which is an interactive form of entertainment, to morph itself into a device for telling stories, and expecting it to be EASY.  It isn't easy.  Games aren't intended to be devices to tell stories, and that isn't there point.  Oh, they CAN be used like that, but the benchmark for a great game is NOT that it has a great story.  The benchmark is how well it plays.  A game scores points if it can tell a story.  But, I will assure you the videogame industry is going to bankrupt itself if it feels it HAS to compete with Hollywood, TV and the book industry, to be a medium for telling the best stories.  It will not only drive up its current costs, but throw into it the entire array of what is needed to make a movie work, and add that to it.  Soon, the arms race to make storytelling the TOP element, will cause games to average a cost of $100+ million to make.

Anyone here think the videogame industry will survive if perceived demands of what is needed to make a game that sells, drives the costs to $100+ million?  The surest way is to cause the videogame industry to fold is to require it get into the movie making business, and have costs to match.  But if you don't push for the top voice talent, director and so on, expect then the production value to be less. 

This being said, a reason why you get bad stories is that the talent isn't there to use the medium to actually TELL a story.  People don't have the skills, so you get the likes of Kojima producing what FEELS like a blockbuster, but is a mess in regards to the actual story, with memorable points that don't fit togeter as a whole.

Great Great Great!.... I agree with this, Video Games are meant to played and NOT waxthed, this gen has been especially bad with Story for some reason becoming more important than the actual game, and its ridiculous. This is wh developers should focus on creating engaging over the over bloated, overrated Epic stor.

Disagree, PS1 had them, did you play xenogears... 45 minute cutscenes.. its just instead of watching pretty things like in metal gear. You watched pressing x button.

Plus I agree 45 minute cutscenes are too long

im not sure what your debating? im not denying that past gens didnt have them its just this gen its been a priority focus. Xenogears is fantastic in storyline but look at the effect it hand on the game. Xxtreamely linear and controlled

No. The reason why the 2nd disc of Xenogears was like that is because at the time, Final Fantasy 8 was in production. FF8's development team was running low on money so Square decided to take money out of Xenogear's buget to help fund FF8.


uuuhhhh yes? Xenogears had overbloated yet great story that demanded the game being built around....nobodies talkin bout why Xenogears 2nd disk became full tex based( and yes everybody that knows Xenogear knows the FF8 intervene )

ameratsu on 18 April 2010

Good perspective from an indie game designer on why games have bad stories: http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/14/the-meanings-of-games/

Another two very good posts on the subject by the same author
http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2007/12/13/entering-the-post-gameplay-era/
http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/11/27/the-challenge-of-non-linearity/



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contestgamer on 18 April 2010

Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?



thelifatree on 18 April 2010
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?

And you could hit 2 birds with 1 stone. in that metal gear has better gameplay than most other games imo



restored_lost on 18 April 2010

this smells like a i hate mgs4 thread...but thats fine it has its problems..



"even a dead god still dreams"

 

Xxain on 18 April 2010
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?

Then watch a movie or read a book? why would somebody who wants story choose Video "GAMES" for telling stories over other forms of media that do it better?... this genuinely honest question that bugs the hell outta me.

thelifatree on 18 April 2010
Xxain said:
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?

Then watch a movie or read a book? why would somebody who wants story choose Video "GAMES" for telling stories over other forms of media that do it better?... this genuinely honest question that bugs the hell outta me.

because, videogames can be used as a different storytelling medium. Playing a game for 40 hours immerses you in an intricately detailed world. much more than an 1.5 hour movie does