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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 Custom Firmware 3.21OO Release Imminent

joeorc said:
bowspearer said:
papflesje said:
I'll ask again: could it be that Sony is not in trouble because OtherOS has not been eliminated from consoles, but that access is merely blocked. Technically, they could say in court that the feature is still there, just not accessible until Sony can figure out a way to stop hacking. I doubt they won't be able to postpone any judgment that way until they fix their problem.

Replied to the first time this came up but it did not seem to add for some reason. The answer is a flat out yes. The problem with it being there but inaccessible is that according to consumer protection laws, if you buy a product which the manufacturer claims is capable of performing certain functions or tasks and a person buys it with the intention of performing said functions and tasks, then the consumer must be able to perform said functions or tasks with said device. Even if the function is still present; while the consumer is unable to use said function on said product, consumer protection laws have still been broken. EULAs and T&Cs do not override those laws, but rather the very opposite- consumer protection laws override any T&C or EULA which contains terms which breach those laws. It's literally that black and white.

 

This is something those defending Sony either cannot comprehend, or simply do not want to comprehend.

also on the same token the consumer protection law's also can be used to show that Sony is doing just that. protecting the consumer's hardware from remote hack's!

Sony would also be liable if they did nothing to prevent further attack's.

this is about they removed the function of install other OS out of the xmb to prevent further security breaches across PSN, not the removal of Linux in of it's self.

because

the consumer does not OWN the right's to the Xmb. Sony can and will update the security of the xmb just like any software company.

you and other's may say there is no way that a remote hack can happen, but as was shown even with the protection's in place the PS3's security was Breached by a "Consumer" when the Term's of service state's and which that consumer agreed to not to try to bypass the security and protection's of the PS3 OR PSN anyone that uses the CFW on the ps3 to gain access to PSN with a PS3 that still has Linux installed will be breaking that term's of service Sony removed the security threat of a linux enabled PS3 to PSN, thus Sony took what ever step's that they can to prevent remote hacking attempt's.

if sony did nothing Sony could be Liable by not doing anything they may be liable for:

NEGLIGENCE

The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.

example:

Sony would have to prove Prudence in this, which they have so

if Sony can prove within reason that such a hack could be done remotely across their network, then it can be shown that Sony is protecting the consumer's that own the PS3 from external hack's.

example:

this firm:

Root Labs offers design and review services for embedded and kernel security, crypto, and software protection.

what solution did they give to use as a countermeasure

it remains to be seen what security measures Sony has taken to address a hypervisor compromise. One countermeasure would be to lock down the OtherOS environment, since the attack depends on the ability to manipulate low-level OS memory structures. They could be using a simpler hypervisor than the GameOS side (say, one that just prevents access to the GPU). Perhaps the SPEs have a disable bit that turns off the hardware decryption unit, and the hypervisor does this before booting OtherOS.

while I do not like the fact that Sony had to remove the Other OS install function from the XMB of the PS3 they did it for a security reason and the

magistrate will most likely see it that way.

 If it can be shown that the company which make's the product is in prudence to protecting the Consumer's who purchased their product, than that company can reasonably be viewed IN COMPLIANCE and would not be culpable.

 

 

 

I suggest you take a closer look at the Trade Practices Act of Australia, just to bring up that one example. What you're trying to argue is completely negated by it. Furthermore, when I spoke to the NSW Dept of Fair Trading, they made it pretty clear that considering my situation at the very least (where the FW change happened within a month of purchasing the console) that what happened was illegal and that I was entitled to either partial compensation or a full refund. The ownership of the XMB is irrelevant.

The fact you keep glazing over is that Sony marketted the PS3 to be capable of certain things. People bought it based on those things. The Trade Practices Act and similar legislation in the EU stipulates that the PS3 MUST retain those features for the life of the product. When this thing goes to trial or tribunal, it will be this fact that will see Sony sunk, no matter how crash hot their lawyers are.

In Australia, the EU and other regions where there are consumer protection laws, Sony's EULA and T&Cs are as binding as an other contract which attempts to facilitate illegal activities. Why do so many people in discussion thread on this subject seem incapable of grasping this.



Around the Network
Deneidez said:
Don't worry, you all will update to newest firmware and you might not even know it. I think first ones will be those who are connected to internet. After a while when older games get goty versions etc. there will be updates on game discs that will update your firmware. Do this or do that you are screwed and can take only rubber fist into your hmm... donkey. :)

http://www.thinq.co.uk/news/2010/4/22/sony-can-update-ps3-firmware-without-asking/

You must know that you're updating your PS3, it is illegal for them to apply a update without your permission hence the warnings before you update.



bowspearer said:
joeorc said:
bowspearer said:
papflesje said:
I'll ask again: could it be that Sony is not in trouble because OtherOS has not been eliminated from consoles, but that access is merely blocked. Technically, they could say in court that the feature is still there, just not accessible until Sony can figure out a way to stop hacking. I doubt they won't be able to postpone any judgment that way until they fix their problem.

Replied to the first time this came up but it did not seem to add for some reason. The answer is a flat out yes. The problem with it being there but inaccessible is that according to consumer protection laws, if you buy a product which the manufacturer claims is capable of performing certain functions or tasks and a person buys it with the intention of performing said functions and tasks, then the consumer must be able to perform said functions or tasks with said device. Even if the function is still present; while the consumer is unable to use said function on said product, consumer protection laws have still been broken. EULAs and T&Cs do not override those laws, but rather the very opposite- consumer protection laws override any T&C or EULA which contains terms which breach those laws. It's literally that black and white.

 

This is something those defending Sony either cannot comprehend, or simply do not want to comprehend.

also on the same token the consumer protection law's also can be used to show that Sony is doing just that. protecting the consumer's hardware from remote hack's!

Sony would also be liable if they did nothing to prevent further attack's.

this is about they removed the function of install other OS out of the xmb to prevent further security breaches across PSN, not the removal of Linux in of it's self.

because

the consumer does not OWN the right's to the Xmb. Sony can and will update the security of the xmb just like any software company.

you and other's may say there is no way that a remote hack can happen, but as was shown even with the protection's in place the PS3's security was Breached by a "Consumer" when the Term's of service state's and which that consumer agreed to not to try to bypass the security and protection's of the PS3 OR PSN anyone that uses the CFW on the ps3 to gain access to PSN with a PS3 that still has Linux installed will be breaking that term's of service Sony removed the security threat of a linux enabled PS3 to PSN, thus Sony took what ever step's that they can to prevent remote hacking attempt's.

if sony did nothing Sony could be Liable by not doing anything they may be liable for:

NEGLIGENCE

The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.

example:

Sony would have to prove Prudence in this, which they have so

if Sony can prove within reason that such a hack could be done remotely across their network, then it can be shown that Sony is protecting the consumer's that own the PS3 from external hack's.

example:

this firm:

Root Labs offers design and review services for embedded and kernel security, crypto, and software protection.

what solution did they give to use as a countermeasure

it remains to be seen what security measures Sony has taken to address a hypervisor compromise. One countermeasure would be to lock down the OtherOS environment, since the attack depends on the ability to manipulate low-level OS memory structures. They could be using a simpler hypervisor than the GameOS side (say, one that just prevents access to the GPU). Perhaps the SPEs have a disable bit that turns off the hardware decryption unit, and the hypervisor does this before booting OtherOS.

while I do not like the fact that Sony had to remove the Other OS install function from the XMB of the PS3 they did it for a security reason and the

magistrate will most likely see it that way.

 If it can be shown that the company which make's the product is in prudence to protecting the Consumer's who purchased their product, than that company can reasonably be viewed IN COMPLIANCE and would not be culpable.

 

 

 

I suggest you take a closer look at the Trade Practices Act of Australia, just to bring up that one example. What you're trying to argue is completely negated by it. Furthermore, when I spoke to the NSW Dept of Fair Trading, they made it pretty clear that considering my situation at the very least (where the FW change happened within a month of purchasing the console) that what happened was illegal and that I was entitled to either partial compensation or a full refund. The ownership of the XMB is irrelevant.

The fact you keep glazing over is that Sony marketted the PS3 to be capable of certain things. People bought it based on those things. The Trade Practices Act and similar legislation in the EU stipulates that the PS3 MUST retain those features for the life of the product. When this thing goes to trial or tribunal, it will be this fact that will see Sony sunk, no matter how crash hot their lawyers are.

In Australia, the EU and other regions where there are consumer protection laws, Sony's EULA and T&Cs are as binding as an other contract which attempts to facilitate illegal activities. Why do so many people in discussion thread on this subject seem incapable of grasping this.

well file away and good luck

you will need it.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

If you were trying to make yourself look completely ignorant, you just succeeded. I suggest you go back a page or so and look for the post where I explained how these types of situations work here in Australia with the ACCC (and to a lesser extent, the Dept of Fair Trading).

If you had you would have known that launching civil proceedings while criminal proceedings on the matter were underway, would be incredibly premature.



dude Australia is not the whole fucking world, you are being worse then Americans who think American sales > world.

You keep calling people ignorant but you are just showing that you are the ignorant one by not accepting the fact that in other parts of the world when you agree to something you are boned.

Plus this thread was about (non-existant) custom FW not your personal quest to fill the internets with crying. BTW how about you post something about how you have linux installed and cant go on PSN because you will lose your OOS/linux install.

Probably fucking not.



Around the Network
Random Canadian said:
dude Australia is not the whole fucking world, you are being worse then Americans who think American sales > world.

You keep calling people ignorant but you are just showing that you are the ignorant one by not accepting the fact that in other parts of the world when you agree to something you are boned.

Plus this thread was about (non-existant) custom FW not your personal quest to fill the internets with crying. BTW how about you post something about how you have linux installed and cant go on PSN because you will lose your OOS/linux install.

Probably fucking not.

Actually the only one making that ASSumption here is you. Had you bothered to read you would have noticed that the previous poster was referring to my specific case. When people talked about the law regarding the ACCC they were referring to Australian law. Furthermore Australia and the EU (whose consumer protection laws are virtually identical) make up the vast majority of the western market for Sony. Maybe those gamers in other parts of the world (limited parts of Asia and North & South America) need to focus on getting similar consumer protection laws so this kind of thing can't happen to them again so that they're not just limited to lawsuits where money becomes an issue.

Also the custom firmware came about because of Sony's actions and so it was bound to get into that- which it did, courtesy of the Sony suck ups - clearly you were too busy screwing yourself by your own attitude to notice that. If you want to blame anyone for thisw thread getting off topic, point the finger squarely at them where it belongs.

Do everyone here a favour and pull your head out of your backside!



bowspearer said:
Random Canadian said:
dude Australia is not the whole fucking world, you are being worse then Americans who think American sales > world.

You keep calling people ignorant but you are just showing that you are the ignorant one by not accepting the fact that in other parts of the world when you agree to something you are boned.

Plus this thread was about (non-existant) custom FW not your personal quest to fill the internets with crying. BTW how about you post something about how you have linux installed and cant go on PSN because you will lose your OOS/linux install.

Probably fucking not.

Actually the only one making that ASSumption here is you. Had you bothered to read you would have noticed that the previous poster was referring to my specific case. When people talked about the law regarding the ACCC they were referring to Australian law. Furthermore Australia and the EU (whose consumer protection laws are virtually identical) make up the vast majority of the western market for Sony. Maybe those gamers in other parts of the world (limited parts of Asia and North & South America) need to focus on getting similar consumer protection laws so this kind of thing can't happen to them again so that they're not just limited to lawsuits where money becomes an issue.

Also the custom firmware came about because of Sony's actions and so it was bound to get into that- which it did, courtesy of the Sony suck ups - clearly you were too busy screwing yourself by your own attitude to notice that. If you want to blame anyone for thisw thread getting off topic, point the finger squarely at them where it belongs.

Do everyone here a favour and pull your head out of your backside!

you want to talk about pointing the finger at where it belong's?

let's shall we-

as for doing CFW in response to Sony's action's.

that is lame and an insult to think this was in response to:

No, that's complete an utter BS, IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE SOME CONSUMER THOUGHT THE RULE'S DO NOT APPLY TO HIM.

That's How it came about while screwing the d@mn rest of us in the process.

Geohot was no doubt working on CFW such before he even released his Hack to the internet because he knew what Sony was going to do if he released it.  An yet he went right ahead and did it,

The CFW he was already working on and not to mention already getting downgrader chip's for his PS3.

where right on the web site for those downgrader chip's states:

"Our Team or any other associated companies do not condone the illegal copying and/or distribution of computer software for the game consoles or any other format. You must act accordingly to the laws of your country! Respect the laws, Respect the gaming industry, and use our products accordingly in its original state."

and once again Geohot does not think the rule's apply to him,

If Geohot would have just kept his mouth shut and not released to everyone on the internet we would not be in this mess.

I love how you and other's See only Sony is to blame for this.

So like I said go an do what you have to do and while your at it

why are you not seeking damages also from Geohot?

o'l that's right "HE'S A CONSUMER"

Since he broke every d@mn rule in the His action's caused this and through Geohot's own

Negligence

caused all this

why are you not pointing the finger at who' is responsible

Computer Misuse Act 1990

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/ukpga_19900018_en_1#pb1-l1g3

 

 

 

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

it's like you move into a new rent controlled building, and an someone vandalizes a section of the building's door and so to tighten security the building owner closes off that section with a new door key card but your old key card will not work . would you sue the owner of the building because your old key will not work and you have to get a new key?



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

So when is the CFW coming? I want to know so I am prepared for a new official one from Sony to make that one obsolete



bowspearer said:
Random Canadian said:
dude Australia is not the whole fucking world, you are being worse then Americans who think American sales > world.

You keep calling people ignorant but you are just showing that you are the ignorant one by not accepting the fact that in other parts of the world when you agree to something you are boned.

Plus this thread was about (non-existant) custom FW not your personal quest to fill the internets with crying. BTW how about you post something about how you have linux installed and cant go on PSN because you will lose your OOS/linux install.

Probably fucking not.

Actually the only one making that ASSumption here is you. Had you bothered to read you would have noticed that the previous poster was referring to my specific case. When people talked about the law regarding the ACCC they were referring to Australian law. Furthermore Australia and the EU (whose consumer protection laws are virtually identical) make up the vast majority of the western market for Sony. Maybe those gamers in other parts of the world (limited parts of Asia and North & South America) need to focus on getting similar consumer protection laws so this kind of thing can't happen to them again so that they're not just limited to lawsuits where money becomes an issue.

Also the custom firmware came about because of Sony's actions and so it was bound to get into that- which it did, courtesy of the Sony suck ups - clearly you were too busy screwing yourself by your own attitude to notice that. If you want to blame anyone for thisw thread getting off topic, point the finger squarely at them where it belongs.

Do everyone here a favour and pull your head out of your backside!

Oh come on Bowboy we were actually having a nice chat about the lack of known deployment and other issues with Custom FW a few pages back, which if you didnt notice is the topic of this thread, sort of.

But you have to keep bringing "consumer protection laws" and how butt-hurt you are about your loss of a feature you dont use.

(see bolded above)

 

Nothing you can say changes the FACT that your ONLY posts on this website are negative comments about an issue you fail to provide proof even effects you. Before you go around throwing stones you might want to take into consideration what your post history says about you. I can think of a few words but im sure they would result in a warning.

@ Vetterman

Barring some sort of act of God you wont see a CFW in 2010, If ever IMO.  Unless someone gets a hold of the PS3 SDK software.