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Forums - Sony Discussion - Without a doubt in my mind Kratos would annihilate Link.

Xero on 15 April 2010
Khuutra said:
Xero said:
Also, have we considered that link cannot instantiously transition between his equipments? All of kratos' equipments fit on him, however in reality let's links equipment transferance process is considerably more time consuming than Kratos.

As in, it'd likely be impossible to start changing masks in battle, or start playing a song on his Ocarena despite these being in links liberary of abilities.

Also, Pegasus would beat the shit out of Epona. Kinda irrelevant but something worth pointing out.

Link carries his items with him at all times - canonically it takes no time at all for him to change equipment, which is translated into gameplay by "pausing".

Fair enough, I was gonna argue about how the UI features (ie pause) surely can't be considered as abilities or traits of the character but I won't bother. 

It's hard to judge Kratos abilities though to be honest because he doesn't confirm to the in-game rules that his world has established for him, as in if Kratos is feeling weak, sometimes his HP will be completely replenished after cutscenes, sometimes he has the strength to overpower a titan. Sometimes he has trouble pushing small blocks around. 



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letsdance on 15 April 2010
caz604 said:
letsdance said:
caz604 said:
As always, Khuutra, your debating skills are top notch.

This reminds me of the great debate of the Marvel Universe vs the DC Comics Universe.
Mythos from the real world... changed and adapted for mythos in the video game world...

I myself would have to go with which world the fight would take place.

If it was in the God of War Universe with the laws of physics and magic from that world, then Kratos would win.

If fought in Hyrule, Kratos doesn't stand a chance.

However, if on a neutral world, we need goalposts and the new laws of physics and magic to have a nice solid debate.

His debating skills are to ignore logic and use double standards to his advantage.


Well I dont see the double standard.... and I've been debating, bargaining, negotiating a long time from experience. 

What needs to be done here, is to lay the field down and set up a core set of parameters to adhere to. 

While I understand your viewpoint, and you're correct in your arguement about the devs balance.. et al, however that in itself lends credence to Khuutras arguement.


It is logical to believe that when Link is attacking he isnt intangible. Just like its logical to believe Kratos can hop onto a ledge on the other side of the screen without dying. In order for him to not have double standards he needs to say kratos drops dead from touching a restricted area... Do we actually believe this would be the case in an all out battle with link? No. I don't think anyone would. Just like we can discredit the devs for killing kratos we can discredit them with their magic cape.

On top of that he says "Kratos never actually uses the items he gets" which is another ridiculous claim. As I pointed out I never used the magic cape in my game either thus the magic cape in thrown out along with the items kratos never uses. If he didn't have double standards he would allow the items Kratos gets since he does indeed have possession over them... more so than link has over the magic cape.



Khuutra on 15 April 2010
Xero said:
Khuutra said:

Link carries his items with him at all times - canonically it takes no time at all for him to change equipment, which is translated into gameplay by "pausing".

Fair enough, I was gonna argue about how the UI features (ie pause) surely can't be considered as abilities or traits of the character but I won't bother. 

It's hard to judge Kratos abilities though to be honest because he doesn't confirm to the in-game rules that his world has established for him, as in if Kratos is feeling weak, sometimes his HP will be completely replenished after cutscenes, sometimes he has the strength to overpower a titan. Sometimes he has trouble pushing small blocks around. 

I mean the post that was higher up. The longer one.

Kratos's powers are consistent canonically, but they're much lower than people give him credit for unless he's channeling the power of Hope, as he does when he fights gods and titans.



letsdance on 15 April 2010
Xero said:
Khuutra said:
Xero said:
Also, have we considered that link cannot instantiously transition between his equipments? All of kratos' equipments fit on him, however in reality let's links equipment transferance process is considerably more time consuming than Kratos.

As in, it'd likely be impossible to start changing masks in battle, or start playing a song on his Ocarena despite these being in links liberary of abilities.

Also, Pegasus would beat the shit out of Epona. Kinda irrelevant but something worth pointing out.

Link carries his items with him at all times - canonically it takes no time at all for him to change equipment, which is translated into gameplay by "pausing".

Fair enough, I was gonna argue about how the UI features (ie pause) surely can't be considered as abilities or traits of the character but I won't bother. 

It's hard to judge Kratos abilities though to be honest because he doesn't confirm to the in-game rules that his world has established for him, as in if Kratos is feeling weak, sometimes his HP will be completely replenished after cutscenes, sometimes he has the strength to overpower a titan. Sometimes he has trouble pushing small blocks around. 


Again this is another feature for pacing and fun factor for the developers. Just like Kratos wouldn't die from stepping out of bounds Link would not pull a sledge hammer from his ass hole. I brought this up already but let it slide since I could already tell Khuutra is biased. I stopped taking the guy seriously when he said Links kill list dwarfed Kratos'



Staude on 15 April 2010
Khuutra said:
Staude said:
Khuutra said:

It would be logical, but it's just not true. The Magic Cape is a cheaply powerful item that there's no way around until Link runs out of magic. Link cannot be touched, period, whil he's wearing it, even when he hits Kratos - and Kratos can't actually grab enemies while he's being hit, and hee can't counter a move he can't see coming, and even if he could it wouldn't matter becuse Link can't be hit.

THe Magic Cape has broken this fight.

If you want to come up with another scenario for the fight where Link doesn't have both Chateau Romani and the Magic Cape, that's fine, I'll argue there too, but the argument of Combined Link vs. Kratos was over as soon as it started.

you cannot deny logic like that. Even if you claim it broken you must abide by some rules. YYou can't have someone touching someone else while the other cannot touch that said person at that exact moment. not that anyone else could interfere but that specific person. And if he is able to run out of magic then kratos has already won on that too. ..

 

And kratos does grab some people within QTE's while they attack him. And certainly he can use that to his advantage to win any fight.

Actually, yeah, I know. It's not fair, it makes the fight into a bullshit exercise in futility, etc. I know.

But the fact remains is that that's still how the Magic Cape works. Link can hit anyon but he can't be hit or grabbed, period. He can hit you whilel he's standing inside of a wall. He can hit you while he's standing inside of you, and you're the only one who will feel the impact. It's a broken, unbeatable combination that can't be gotten around.

That's why I encourage letsdance to come up with a scenario that doesn't involve the Magic Cape, or at least say "Okay with Chateau Romani and the Magic Cape there's no way Kratos can beat Link but that's not in the spirit of the discussion." So long as he doesn't do this, I can't go down any other lines of logic.

Okay. Kratos travels back in time and kills link before he ever gets the cape. Problem solved.

 

However, even with the cape kratos would be able to counter contact at contact. If it is broken like you say that doesn't make it a rule of the item but rather inefficient programming which we can't presume would affect us in this game. You have to remember to take how god of war works into account aswell as the zelda world.



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Jdevil3 on 15 April 2010
Khuutra said:
Staude said:

There is no such item.

 

It's not the same.. Because Kratos is no brute. You solve a lot of puzzles throughout the god of war games. It's not a hack and slash game, it's a action adventure.

 

@Khuutra. As soon as link would attack, his body would be able to have contact with kratos. At that moment kratos would pull off his cape, either destroy it or wear it himself, and destroy link. If link also had the armor he would take it and beat link to death with it.

I went over this earlier: this isn't true. Link can hit enemies while standing inside of other enemies, or even walls. When he's wearing the Magic Cape, Link can hurt others but cannot be touched, period. The fight's over.

 

There are some enemies in God of War III that become invisible and intangible so they can't be damaged... I think they're called Sirens... You just have to use the Head of Helios and they become tangible and visible and they can be damaged again.

Besides, as I said before... even if Link killed Kratos, Kratos would still come back from hell as many times as he needs.



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Khuutra on 15 April 2010
Staude said:

Okay. Kratos travels back in time and kills link before he ever gets the cape. Problem solved.

 

However, even with the cape kratos would be able to counter contact at contact. If it is broken like you say that doesn't make it a rule of the item but rather inefficient programming which we can't presume would affect us in this game. You have to remember to take how god of war works into account aswell as the zelda world.

Kratos can't counter what he can't see, and he can't hit what he can't touch.

What point in time are we talking about Kratos here? Kratos in GoW3 doesn't have access to the loom anymore.



Xero on 15 April 2010
Khuutra said:
Xero said:
Khuutra said:

Link carries his items with him at all times - canonically it takes no time at all for him to change equipment, which is translated into gameplay by "pausing".

Fair enough, I was gonna argue about how the UI features (ie pause) surely can't be considered as abilities or traits of the character but I won't bother. 

It's hard to judge Kratos abilities though to be honest because he doesn't confirm to the in-game rules that his world has established for him, as in if Kratos is feeling weak, sometimes his HP will be completely replenished after cutscenes, sometimes he has the strength to overpower a titan. Sometimes he has trouble pushing small blocks around. 

I mean the post that was higher up. The longer one.

Kratos's powers are consistent canonically, but they're much lower than people give him credit for unless he's channeling the power of Hope, as he does when he fights gods and titans.

Also Kratos can hit zeus when he's in his 'ethereal' form which you would think would naturally be intangible. Also whilst Athena is normally 'intangible' she seems to believe Zeus will 'strike her down' screaming 'you can't and flinching' as he brandishes Zeus sword. 

So whilst Kratos certainly may not be able to hit intangible targets with the claw of hades, it's apparent that he can with the sword of Zeus. 



Moren on 15 April 2010

I don't know, kratos is wild, but link is clever.....
I'll have to say kratos has a bigger chance........
but then.... there is no blood or gore in zelda, so kratos wouldn't rip his head off for legal reasons, and since all atacks of cratos involve blood link would win.
sadly that won' apply if link is the one who visits kratos



letsdance on 15 April 2010
Khuutra said:
Staude said:

Okay. Kratos travels back in time and kills link before he ever gets the cape. Problem solved.

 

However, even with the cape kratos would be able to counter contact at contact. If it is broken like you say that doesn't make it a rule of the item but rather inefficient programming which we can't presume would affect us in this game. You have to remember to take how god of war works into account aswell as the zelda world.

Kratos can't counter what he can't see, and he can't hit what he can't touch.

What point in time are we talking about Kratos here? Kratos in GoW3 doesn't have access to the loom anymore.


The shadow is still appearent. Kratos would be able to see it no matter how much you want to believe Kratos would be the same shitty AI back in the SNES era