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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft promises Milo is the next step.

Porcupine_I on 12 April 2010
BillyBOBMahog said:
NJ5 said:

Agreed. To this date we don't even know if it can do something like Wii's IR aiming.

With such basic unknowns, no one can really predict how successful it will be.

 

It has an accuracy of 3mm in the XY dimensions at 2 meters from the camera.  Plenty of accuracy for using your hand and an on-screen indication.  For what purposes were you wanting Natal to have something similar to IR aiming capabilities?

is there a credible source for this information?



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welshbloke on 12 April 2010
binary solo said:
I dunno. I don't see the amazingness of this. And to say SF writers haven't thought of it is PR BS. OK strictly Molyneux is right because what SF writer has ever thought of using an AI character that only resides in an immobile TV screen? No all SF AI characters are cyborgs or the like. So I guess Molyneux gets out off on a technicality there.

You never see Holly in Red Dwarf then?



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BillyBOBMahog on 12 April 2010
NJ5 said:

Do you mean that it can tell if I move a finger left by 3 mm? In that case, pixel-accurate aiming at 1280x720 would require more than 3 meter movements, even if you make that 10-pixel accuracy that still makes it more than 30 cm, looks like way too much.

Just speculation which is probably wrong...

 

Yep, for 3mm == 1 pixel, the width of the screen would require 3.84 meters and the hieght would require 2.16 meters.  Way too much. 

There are many ways one could do this.  Given that Natal can detect the length of someones arms, one could use this measurement as the weight for interpolating the hand movement to screen space.  Such that your arm span, fully extended, equals screen space. 

Another method would be to imagine an imaginary vertical plane in front of the person.  Interacting with this plane, would be like interacting with the television.  This imaginary plane could be any dimension the developer wanted.  The hand position relative to the invisible plane would be converted to screen space.  And the movements could be noticed to an accuracy of 3mm.  Probably a great number for a number of reasons.  Most notably, for smoothness.  A slightly shaking hand probably moves more than 3mm.

It all depends on the context of what you are wanting to do for the game.

 

~BillyBOB



BillyBOBMahog on 12 April 2010
Porcupine_I said:
BillyBOBMahog said:
NJ5 said:

Agreed. To this date we don't even know if it can do something like Wii's IR aiming.

With such basic unknowns, no one can really predict how successful it will be.

 

It has an accuracy of 3mm in the XY dimensions at 2 meters from the camera.  Plenty of accuracy for using your hand and an on-screen indication.  For what purposes were you wanting Natal to have something similar to IR aiming capabilities?

is there a credible source for this information?

From PrimeSense's chip reference(the chip in Natal).

http://www.primesense.com/category/reference_design

Depth image size VGA (640x480)
Spatial x/y resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 3mm
Depth z resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 1cm


tingyu on 12 April 2010

Yay, cutie adolescent boy is the FUTURE!!

Dead or Alive Boys Paradise Milo version, sales prediction now on.



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Shonen on 12 April 2010
NJ5 said:
mike_intellivision said:
This points to the biggest issue with Natal.

There is so much misunderstanding of what it can and will do. And overselling (which Microsoft has a reputation of doing) could ultimately be a negative on this hardware. In other words, not everyone realizes that the AI is a tech concept video and not actual "gameplay footage."

In other words, there are a lot of people who expect it to do much more than it will be able to do. Not that it will not be a good technology, but it may not be the technology that some people (incorrectly) expect.

Mike from Morgantown

Agreed. To this date we don't even know if it can do something like Wii's IR aiming.

With such basic unknowns, no one can really predict how successful it will be.

 

Just to note i agree with those statements .



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gurglesletch on 12 April 2010
CGI-Quality said:
gurglesletch said:
CGI-Quality said:
gurglesletch said:
CGI-Quality said:
gurglesletch said:
CGI-Quality said:
gurglesletch said:
CGI-Quality said:
gurglesletch said:
That Milo demo was lame though many will disagree with me.

What didn't you like about it?

It was all smoke and mirrors. I do not believe that technology is to the point of where the demo was trying to show us it was.

I keep hearing this. Was it confirmed to not be realtime?

I'll re word it if you like. It was a specially designed thing that responded to a few words and gestures.

Still doesn't answer my question though. People keep claiming that it was "false", "not for real", "all show".....or......"specially designed". Where's the confirmation?

Where's the proof it was?

Well it was displayed to an audience and was called realtime. Those claiming it isn't need to provide the proof.

Microsoft may have been lying. A lot of game companies do that.

They may have been telling the truth. A lot of companies do that too.

Unless you have proof it was real this topic can't properly be discussed and we should both walk away with our honour intact.




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Skeeuk on 12 April 2010
CGI-Quality said:



Amazing!

 

i have to respectfully disagree

study how claire is acting! no sane person will talk to TV like that. no wonder the blinds are shut.

if someone walks past a users house and spotted him/her doing that they would think of that person to be mad!



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richardhutnik on 12 April 2010

Hey, if they want to have a LOT of sales, here is an idea: Do a virtual version of Peter Molyneux using Milo technology! And then position is a sequel to Close Range!
http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=34303&region=All

Throw in the voice of the Team Fortress 2 sniper... "Boom, head shot." and you likely will end up selling a lot of copies.

Another option, to position for the tween girl market, is that you have Peter as a model in an Imagine game for Natal. You play fashion photographer. "Boom, head shot" ends up having a more family friendly angle to it.



HappySqurriel on 12 April 2010
r505Matt said:
NJ5 said:
r505Matt said:
I love how some people here are talking about speech recognition and speech synthesis and facial recognition software like they are experts in regards to the various software.

Tell me what speech synthesis software even comes near to the quality of Milo's speech...

I've seen many and they're nowhere near as good. Yes, they are usable for blind people to read web pages, but they don't sound like a real person reading, much less a person talking with emotion (which is what Milo sounds like).

 

I don't know anything about speech synthesis, so I didn't make any comments on it. I was more interested in talking about speech recognition and gesture/emotion recognition, both of which I believe are possible for Milo. Though, my argument works against myself, and while I might know a bit about speech recognition, I am by no means an expert.

But since we're on speech synthesis, I don't think that's what they're trying to do with Milo (yet). I do think that what Milo is saying is scripted, but I don't think the experience is scripted. That can go towards the illusion thing Molyneux talks about, and that's okay so long as the experience itself is immersive as a result.

This is obvious but we won't really know until it's released or shortly beforehand.

I’m currently working in a company that deals heavily with voice recognition, and have worked directly with it in my past; although I am far from an expert in it, and my focus is in a completely different segment of the company (because they’re moving away from voice based systems). Our sales team will brag about a 75% recognition rate to new clients for a voice based system for a very simple call-flow because of how few systems can achieve that success level; and this requires more processing power than you could dedicate to the task on the XBox 360 and still have a game running at the same time. If you’re wondering, human levels of recognition are in the 97.5% range.

Bleeding edge voice recognition is so primitive it makes the worst Wiimote Waggle look amazingly precise.