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Forums - Nintendo - And I thought Gamespot's FE review was bad.

linkthe2nd said:
I stopped reading at "Laughable plot" on gamespot. They're losing so much credibility with me nowadays.

bashing an anime based game for having a laughable plot is like bashing a sports game for the teams being unbalanced.

It's kinda the point.  Has anyone ever seen one anime that didn't have a laughable plot?  That's just how they work.  I mean, Custom Robo was an awesome game... but you were fighting an unstoppable invisible killing machine by using a childs toy.

Oh jeez.  Custom Robo got a 65 Metacritic average.

Wonder why... that game was all sorts of fun.  Oh wait, everyone bashed the story of custom robo i guess according to Metacritic and just perfered the straight battles.

Weird.  I thought the characters were pretty hilarious... what with the weird old lady, and all the parodys on anime type stuff, and the tough guy who loves to write poetry.

I think some critics just don't understand the greatness of the overly cheesy that's meant to be overly cheesy.



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Kasz216 said:
linkthe2nd said:
I stopped reading at "Laughable plot" on gamespot. They're losing so much credibility with me nowadays.

bashing an anime based game for having a laughable plot is like bashing a sports game for the teams being unbalanced.

It's kinda the point. Has anyone ever seen one anime that didn't have a laughable plot? That's just how they work. I mean, Custom Robo was an awesome game... but you were fighting an unstoppable invisible killing machine by using a childs toy.

Oh jeez. Custom Robo got a 65 Metacritic average.

Wonder why... that game was all sorts of fun. Oh wait, everyone bashed the story of custom robo i guess according to Metacritic and just perfered the straight battles.

Weird. I thought the characters were pretty hilarious... what with the weird old lady, and all the parodys on anime type stuff, and the tough guy who loves to write poetry.

I think some critics just don't understand the greatness of the overly cheesy that's meant to be overly cheesy.


I disagree, both with the laughable plot part and your explanation of it.  Fire Emblem plots have usually been pretty good.  Some parts are a little contrived, but no more or less than most elements of others. 



Words Of Wisdom said:
 

I disagree, both with the laughable plot part and your explanation of it.  Fire Emblem plots have usually been pretty good.  Some parts are a little contrived, but no more or less than most elements of others. 


I agree.  FE has a very good plot.  Especially by modern RPG standards.



naznatips said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
 

I disagree, both with the laughable plot part and your explanation of it. Fire Emblem plots have usually been pretty good. Some parts are a little contrived, but no more or less than most elements of others.


I agree. FE has a very good plot. Especially by modern RPG standards.


FE games do have good plots, and Radiant Dawn is no different.  That is why the GS review is complete junk.

But the big draw of FE is the strategy involved.  Placing all your units appropriately.  Not leaving any holes to your weaker characters while still getting them experience.  It is definitely a hard game, but that's what makes it so effing awesome.  Its very satisfying when you finish a chapter after failing a few times.  Its actually helped me teach my kids a little about persistence.  Even they get it and they are 10 and 9 years old.  Maybe they could do review for GS.



I actually don't see a problem with this. People don't seem to cry foul when games are criticized for being too easy.

Difficulty isn't something like intellectual sophistication in a movie, where there is no limit to the amount that is good. You will never here a movie critic say that a film was too intelligent or that it was too emotionally complicated. That's something that has no limit; by contrast, everyone has a point where difficulty stops being a good thing. 

Which certainly makes it more challenging to critique game difficulty; when is a game too easy? When it is too hard? What do those terms mean in the context of a professional critique? I'm not suggesting that 1up has correctly decided what is too difficult or too easy; I haven't played New Blood at all. Instead, I simply want to establish that the idea of a game being too difficult isn't an absurd complaint.  



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Words Of Wisdom said:
Kasz216 said:
linkthe2nd said:
I stopped reading at "Laughable plot" on gamespot. They're losing so much credibility with me nowadays.

bashing an anime based game for having a laughable plot is like bashing a sports game for the teams being unbalanced.

It's kinda the point. Has anyone ever seen one anime that didn't have a laughable plot? That's just how they work. I mean, Custom Robo was an awesome game... but you were fighting an unstoppable invisible killing machine by using a childs toy.

Oh jeez. Custom Robo got a 65 Metacritic average.

Wonder why... that game was all sorts of fun. Oh wait, everyone bashed the story of custom robo i guess according to Metacritic and just perfered the straight battles.

Weird. I thought the characters were pretty hilarious... what with the weird old lady, and all the parodys on anime type stuff, and the tough guy who loves to write poetry.

I think some critics just don't understand the greatness of the overly cheesy that's meant to be overly cheesy.


I disagree, both with the laughable plot part and your explanation of it.  Fire Emblem plots have usually been pretty good.  Some parts are a little contrived, but no more or less than most elements of others. 


Oh that was Fire Emblem?  I thought the laughable plot comment was about Trauma Center... what with it's silly super virus' that you batle during surgery.

Yeah I like the Fire Emblem series plots.



Bodhesatva said:

I actually don't see a problem with this. People don't seem to cry foul when games are criticized for being too easy.

Difficulty isn't something like intellectual sophistication in a movie, where there is no limit to the amount that is good. You will never here a movie critic say that a film was too intelligent or that it was too emotionally complicated. That's something that has no limit; by contrast, everyone has a point where difficulty stops being a good thing. 

Which certainly makes it more challenging to critique game difficulty; when is a game too easy? When it is too hard? What do those terms mean in the context of a professional critique? I'm not suggesting that 1up has correctly decided what is too difficult or too easy; I haven't played New Blood at all. Instead, I simply want to establish that the idea of a game being too difficult isn't an absurd complaint.  


I would.  Who cares if a game is really easy so long as it's a lot of fun?  I've never died probably half of the PS2 and Gamecube games i've owned... plenty of them were still fun.  A lot of the others ones i've only died in the last few levels.



Bodhesatva said:

I actually don't see a problem with this. People don't seem to cry foul when games are criticized for being too easy.

Difficulty isn't something like intellectual sophistication in a movie, where there is no limit to the amount that is good. You will never here a movie critic say that a film was too intelligent or that it was too emotionally complicated. That's something that has no limit; by contrast, everyone has a point where difficulty stops being a good thing.

Which certainly makes it more challenging to critique game difficulty; when is a game too easy? When it is too hard? What do those terms mean in the context of a professional critique? I'm not suggesting that 1up has correctly decided what is too difficult or too easy; I haven't played New Blood at all. Instead, I simply want to establish that the idea of a game being too difficult isn't an absurd complaint.

 

But being the only complaint they have, in fact the only comment they have about the game and giving it a 5/10?

Especially when every other reviewer has, it seems, had no huge problems with the difficulty? It suggests incompetence on 1UPs part. 



Bodhesatva said:

I actually don't see a problem with this. People don't seem to cry foul when games are criticized for being too easy.

Difficulty isn't something like intellectual sophistication in a movie, where there is no limit to the amount that is good. You will never here a movie critic say that a film was too intelligent or that it was too emotionally complicated. That's something that has no limit; by contrast, everyone has a point where difficulty stops being a good thing. 

Which certainly makes it more challenging to critique game difficulty; when is a game too easy? When it is too hard? What do those terms mean in the context of a professional critique? I'm not suggesting that 1up has correctly decided what is too difficult or too easy; I haven't played New Blood at all. Instead, I simply want to establish that the idea of a game being too difficult isn't an absurd complaint.  

 A game being too difficult could be a valid complaint, but lacking any content in your review past bitching about it being too difficult is not acceptible.  They are reviewers, and it's their job to review all aspects of the game, and not to bitch about one aspect. 

As far as that aspect being correct: To quote IGN when they were questioned about the 1UP reviewer's opinion in their podcast "There is no excuse at all for being unable to beat this game on easy mode, and while the normal difficulty is on the hard side for most people it's far from unbeatable."  It seems to me that they are either very bad at games (which I doubt considering they are reviewers) or criticizing the game for being too hard in hard mode... which is ridiculous.

After 4 hours with the game I have progressed with difficulty on normal mode but I have completed every operation they complained about in the review (all of which were in the first hour or 2) with no difficulty, which of course leads me to believe that they didn't complete the game either, which is very unprofessional.   Again, I really don't care what score you give a game, but the written content of the review needs to be detailed, concise, and informative.



naznatips said:
Bodhesatva said:

I actually don't see a problem with this. People don't seem to cry foul when games are criticized for being too easy.

Difficulty isn't something like intellectual sophistication in a movie, where there is no limit to the amount that is good. You will never here a movie critic say that a film was too intelligent or that it was too emotionally complicated. That's something that has no limit; by contrast, everyone has a point where difficulty stops being a good thing.

Which certainly makes it more challenging to critique game difficulty; when is a game too easy? When it is too hard? What do those terms mean in the context of a professional critique? I'm not suggesting that 1up has correctly decided what is too difficult or too easy; I haven't played New Blood at all. Instead, I simply want to establish that the idea of a game being too difficult isn't an absurd complaint.

A game being too difficult could be a valid complaint, but lacking any content in your review past bitching about it being too difficult is not acceptible. They are reviewers, and it's their job to review all aspects of the game, and not to bitch about one aspect.

As far as that aspect being correct: To quote IGN when they were questioned about the 1UP reviewer's opinion in their podcast "There is no excuse at all for being unable to beat this game on easy mode, and while the normal difficulty is on the hard side for most people it's far from unbeatable." It seems to me that they are either very bad at games (which I doubt considering they are reviewers) or criticizing the game for being too hard in hard mode... which is ridiculous.

After 4 hours with the game I have progressed with difficulty on normal mode but I have completed every operation they complained about in the review (all of which were in the first hour or 2) with no difficulty, which of course leads me to believe that they didn't complete the game either, which is very unprofessional. Again, I really don't care what score you give a game, but the written content of the review needs to be detailed, concise, and informative.


I'm really not defending 1up's review here. Rather than an "I totally agree with 1up, and you guys are totally wrong" post, this was intended to be a more general "1up may not be wrong in this case, but complaints about a game's difficulty are not inherently and always wrong."

As others in the thread have pointed out, its possible to believe that games should neither be criticized for being too easy nor too hard, and I think that's a very reasonable position (I happen to agree with it). But if you are GOING to criticize games for being too easy at times, you must ALSO criticize games for being too hard at others. It's neither, or both.

 



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