MikeB said: @ sieanr How did people miss this gem? Anyway, increased HD penetration isn't going to hurt Nintendo much, if at all this gen. People significantly overestimate the impact of HD on peoples purchases, and it sure as hell wont keep them from buying a cheap console with popular titles. It's quite simple actually, when people buy a good HDTV or 5.1/7.1 surround audio system people usually want to take advantage of its features. At least those who know what these features allow. For the long run this is working in the advantage of the PS3. A friend thinks his Wii looks rather bad on his big screen HDTV, far worse than on a smaller ordinary TV. "I want to see what developers and artists are capable of producing without technical constraint " And what do I mean by that? Well, the specs allow for far more advanced game engines, look at R&C TOD and Uncharted and they still only tap into a minority of the Cell's potential, they haven't hit the limits of 25 GB Blu-Ray discs yet and if they do they can use 50 GB discs instead. Really it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what I was talking about. To quote the developers of Final Fantasy XIII: "The PS3 is the machine that is closest to being able to express our imagination." Now fanboys you can either go crazy like you usually do, or sit down and think for a minute.

Yes and for some danm reason the games are not longer then 6-10 hour, they might look amazing but they are danm short. Explain why with all this power of the cell and space. I would much rather have a game with 25 hours of "great" graphics then 10 hours of "awsome" graphics.

OF COURSE THEY WILL they are developing exclusivly for the ps3. I can post shit from MS exclusive developers saying otherwise. Seriously its not rocket science to figure that companys will talk best about the machine they are working for.

I don't know about falling into "the gab" that is HDDVD. I educated myself on everything before i purchased either, and I chose HDDVD first, then bought a PS3 when it came out.   Blu-ray wasn't even an option in my mind till the PS3 came out, and I didn't buy it with blu-ray in mind, turns out that is the one feature on the PS3 that is consistently used in my house though.  Most people I know who are educated on these things have picked HDDVD over blu-ray, for many reasons.  A lot of them like the fact the format is established and not still being perfected (larger discs don't count), and that they don't have to jump through the DRM hoops to back up their movies, what a pain (although I believe a company has broken through the DRM on BD with one of their software programs).  When I was looking at High def movies, blu-ray was in the 1000$ range, and I still would have chosen HDDVD over, even if they were similarly priced.  Now I don't really care though, as I can watch any new movie that comes out, because I hate this stupid format war, people get to worked up about it, mainly because they bought one thing, and are trying to convince themselves it is the definite winner, when this format war is still far from over.  Yeah, you might be right, my PS3 does look pretty sleek, but most the girls I date/dated look somewhat down upon video games, maybe I just have bad luck (at least they are all hot, I don't mind hiding in the closet about my hobby, haha).

@ Lost tears of Kain

Although there are quite a few bigger games (Oblivion, Resistance , R&C TOD, etc), again that's not so hard to understand neither. We will see larger games eventually.

God of War 2 for the PS2 only took 2 years to complete instead of 3 while improving on the original, so, much of the early development effort may be geared towards getting the game engines up to spec for this generation and core design for brand new games, with sequels they can much more focuss on adding more to the original concept and have a better understanding of the potentials. I read the original Jak & Daxter was only about 8 hours and later sequels were much bigger. Understand this point?

With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration.

MikeB said: @ shams Last year at the beginning of the PS3's launch I said the PS2 would be the big winner for christmas 2006 (I was right with regard to that one) and expected the PS3's first real sales victory worldwide over the XBox 360 for christmas 2007, I still think so, as data so far seems to back up my expectations. (But I didn't expect the PS3 to outsell the Wii in Japan like it currently does, I always thought Japan would turn PS3 as soon as Metal Gear Solid 4 and / or Final Fantasy XIII hit the market, now I wonder if I will be correct or not, not that the PS3 is performing considerably above expectations, the Wii is performing below my previous expectations (Mario Galaxy doesn't seem to push the system as much as I thought). Monster Hunter 3 cannot come soon enough as HDTV penetration increases IMO it will only get increasingly difficult for Nintendo.)

Well, I disagree completely.

I still think the US is the biggest market for gaming, and the 360 has a solid hold there - and a significant advantage over the PS3. I think this margin will be strong enough to beat any offset in Japan/Europe.

...

And as for "...PS3 to outsell the Wii in Japan like it currently does...":

Come on - lets be fair. SONY were desperate, and have pulled pretty much every trick out of the book that they could find:

 - new colour
 - price drop
 - new model (cheaper, with no BC)
 - bundle with significant software

...etc...

All of this comes at the cost of profits. Sure - if Sony don't care about money, they could probably dominate the world market! But it won't last for long.

And to counter all this? Nintendo hasn't done a thing - they don't need to. The Wii is *still* selling out, and they have the luxury to divert as many Japan Wii units to the US as they see fit. No price cut, no bundle, no new colours - nothing. They still have all these options up their sleeves, and they can execute whenever they see fit.

The PS3 install base in Japan is 1.3m - the Wii almost 4m (Wii:PS3 3:1). If anything, the sales of the Wii in Japan were probably stronger than Ninty originally expected - and they knew this fall to "normal" levels would always happen.

If the PS3 starts outselling the Wii by 2:1 or 3:1 - then they might start caring. That gap of 2.7m units will not be closed in a hurry (with the PS3 beating the Wii for 2 weeks by around 50k combined).

So far, the sales patterns are exactly the same as the DS:PSP - and I don't see any reason why this will change. The PSP had a nice boost when the new model was launched as well - and even outsold the DS for a few weeks.

And I personally think Ninty is much more interested in the DS than they are the Wii. Its more "down their alley", less competition - and future consoles are likely to be closer to the DS rather than the Wii (i.e. moving to handheld models).

...

HDTV is obviously not a factor in this at all. Time and time again, the Japanese are choosing graphically weaker consoles (and handhelds) over the stronger ones. If anything - its the other way around. 

Its also interesting to compare these:

http://vgchartz.com/japweekly.php?date=39404&console=PS3&maker=&disp=Japanese+Name&boxartz=1

http://vgchartz.com/japweekly.php?date=39404&console=Wii&maker=&disp=Japanese+Name&boxartz=1

There are 7 Wii titles than have outsold the best selling PS3 title. Couple this with the fact that most PS3 titles cost more to make than Wii titles (and need to sell more units to break even) - and it doesn't paint a rosy picture for PS3 development.

...

Finally - lets not forget that the Wii made its mark in the off season. When sales of the 360/PS3 dropped back to non-holiday levels, the Wii was still going strong. If Nintendo can pull that off for a 2nd year in a row - there is absolutely no stopping them, and the nature of the industry will be changed forever.

MikeB said: ... With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration.

Wow - I don't believe you said that.

C'mon Mike - I thought you had more sense than to say something like this. You are either being provocative (i.e. trolling to get a response), or your knowledge is much more lacking than I thought.

You don't think it might have had more to do with development time, budget, developing multiple skews...etc?

I have seen lots of game designs/schedules, and I have never seen a game design driven by the size limitation of a DVD. That is just ridiculous.

(Look at something like The Orange Box - 5 games, heaps of content - and that fits on a DVD just fine...). 

 

@ shams

No and I think I have made some rather solid points and given proper examples, you guys like to ignore as they don't suit your wishes.



Sure those are factors as well, but Call of Duty games have gone down in gameplay lenght and resolution with the past few releases while aiming at improved effects and polishing some things. It really seems they are making sacrifices to make gains elsewhere.



Developers usually don't want to anger Microsoft (they always claimed DVD is enough), but even the devs behind the first party XBox 360 exclusive Forza 2 admitted they had to make sacrifices to fit on DVD.

Rockstar:



So now you have heard about this finally, now I wonder are you going to thank me or make some other kind of cheapshot?

@ shams

Worldwide both the Nintendo Wii and PS3 are selling on par with my personal expectations from a year ago. But the Wii is well in stock over here. If you want one you can just walk into a store and buy one, or make a phone call and have a Wii delivered at your door the following day.



For the previous generation that doesn't seem to have been the case. The US isn't a bigger market than the rest of the world. This will also be the first christmas for the PS3 in many countries including mine.

MikeB said: @ Lost tears of Kain Yes and for some danm reason the games are not longer then 6-10 hour, they might look amazing but they are danm short. Explain why with all this power of the cell and space. I would much rather have a game with 25 hours of "great" graphics then 10 hours of "awsome" graphics. Although there are quite a few bigger games (Oblivion, Resistance , R&C TOD, etc), again that's not so hard to understand neither. We will see larger games eventually. God of War 2 for the PS2 only took 2 years to complete instead of 3 while improving on the original, so, much of the early development effort may be geared towards getting the game engines up to spec for this generation and core design for brand new games, with sequels they can much more focuss on adding more to the original concept and have a better understanding of the potentials. I read the original Jak & Daxter was only about 8 hours and later sequels were much bigger. Understand this point? With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration.

Explain mass effect, heck explain bioshock, both new IP and both are easily 20 hours.

That call of duty 4 bullshit is unbelievable Mike........ im adding that to signiture just for kicks, this is insane how delusional you are at this point.

 

shams said: MikeB said: ... With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration. Wow - I don't believe you said that. C'mon Mike - I thought you had more sense than to say something like this. You are either being provocative (i.e. trolling to get a response), or your knowledge is much more lacking than I thought. You don't think it might have had more to do with development time, budget, developing multiple skews...etc? I have seen lots of game designs/schedules, and I have never seen a game design driven by the size limitation of a DVD. That is just ridiculous. (Look at something like The Orange Box - 5 games, heaps of content - and that fits on a DVD just fine...).

Heck look at mass effect. Enough voice overs to probably last all the ps3 games out combined, its so unreal all the choices.

MikeB said: @ shams C'mon Mike - I thought you had more sense than to say something like this. You are either being provocative (i.e. trolling to get a response), or your knowledge is much more lacking than I thought. No and I think I have made some rather solid points and given proper examples, you guys like to ignore as they don't suit your wishes. You have zero proof, that and theres plenty of evidence to support otherwise. u don't think it might have had more to do with development time, budget, developing multiple skews...etc? Sure those are factors as well, but Call of Duty games have gone down in gameplay lenght and resolution with the past few releases while aiming at improved effects and polishing some things. It really seems they are making sacrifices to make gains elsewhere. Those are the sacrifices. Improved mult and graphics over length of gameplay, heck the missions they did they did very very well maybe they spent time on that. I have seen lots of game designs/schedules, and I have never seen a game design driven by the size limitation of a DVD. That is just ridiculous. Developers usually don't want to anger Microsoft (they always claimed DVD is enough), but even the devs behind the first party XBox 360 exclusive Forza 2 admitted they had to make sacrifices to fit on DVD. Really now, ive yet to hear of this. That and we hear problems with both sides of consoles. Rockstar: "On PS3, you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage," said Rockstar creative VP Dan Houser. "[W]hereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format." "Does that create limitations?" he asked himself. "Yep." So now you have heard about this finally, now I wonder are you going to thank me or make some other kind of cheapshot? This is the exact same as me going and getting quotes from bioware suggesting otherwise. Rockstar has ALWAYS been pro sony, or at least they are now that they are giving what sony two more big IP exclusive games? Zero difference. That and the fact that Grand theft auto is a big difference from COD 4. I do believe there are limitations but it seems to be with sandbox games.