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Forums - Sales Discussion - Race is on - 360 vrs PS3 (holiday '07)

@ Lost tears of Kain

Explain mass effect, heck explain bioshock, both new IP and both are easily 20 hours.


More development time perhaps, Oblivion is probably a few hundred hours of gameplay. It's about how you design and style your game. A new Pacman could easily deliver thousands of hours of gameplay on just a 1.9 MB diskette.

With regard to the Blu-Ray advantage it's just easier to add additional levels and aim higher like for 7.1 quality audio, store higher res textures and such. For example Oblvion on the PS3 comes with more hours of gameplay than the XBox 360 version (600p), while also looking better.

Just give developers some time and they will show you all the benefits the PS3 advanced architecture provides. We are still very early in the game, God of War 2 wasn't released in the first year of PS2 availability, you know?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

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@ Lost tears of Kain

Heck look at mass effect. Enough voice overs to probably last all the ps3 games out combined, its so unreal all the choices.


There have been extensive speech adventures on the Amiga stored on 3.5 inch diskettes, sounded like OK stereo sound but not 7.1 surround audio quality.

The main issue with Mass Effect is its framerate. But this high budget first party exclusive pushes the XBox 360 to its limits. Buy it, it won't get much better (for the XBox 360) than this.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@ Lost tears of Kain

This is the exact same as me going and getting quotes from bioware suggesting otherwise. Rockstar has ALWAYS been pro sony, or at least they are now that they are giving what sony two more big IP exclusive games? Zero difference. That and the fact that Grand theft auto is a big difference from COD 4. I do believe there are limitations but it seems to be with sandbox games.


You seem to misunderstand what I was replying to, shams claimed he hasn't ever heard of these complaints. So I provided one of many examples and shams you're welcome, it's my pleasure.

If Rockstar is so pro Sony or not, doesn't per se make them anti something else I believe. I don't know if what you state is true or not (would be nice for you to quote some examples), I only know the first GTA I played was on the PC as well as the last (GTA San Andreas).



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@ Lost tears of Kain 

PGR4 (640p): "Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD."

"According to Game Informer, nearly every developer they talked to at X05 expressed difficulties fitting their launch titles onto a single disc."

Game Informer Sony fanboys or genuine worries?

In the years ahead of us we will see developers more and more struggle against DVD limitations and sadly this will affect the potential quality of multiplatform 360/PS3 titles. This really isn't surprising considering later PS2 games already pushed the limits of DVD, the 360 is powerful enough to push games much further and thus make them more demanding. What is really surprising though is that people like shams have never heard of these issues, but I'm happy I could be of service to you guys.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

OMG, MikeB, I get such a kick out of reading your posts. I nominate MikeB, official comic relief of VG!!!



Currently Playing:

PS4 - Killzone:SF and Assasins Creed 4

 

XBox One: BF4, CoD:Ghosts, Dead Rising 3, Forza 5

 

Changing channels with my voice: priceless!!!

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WEWdeadeye said:
OMG, MikeB, I get such a kick out of reading your posts. I nominate MikeB, official comic relief of VG!!!

So we have now :

- An official idiot for VGChartz (John) ;)

- An official comic (Mike) ;);)

I have put Mike on my ignore list for monthes, but i am more and more annoyed as the time passes ...

Is there anyway he could stop saying the exact same arguments whatever the topics are ?

Is there any way he starts listening and answering others ?

To Mike : repeating the same things 10 times does not make them more "real".  Your over-confidence in "Cell Power" has been proven numerous times, so you don't need to come back 2 hours after with this argument. The same for disk capability. The same with BR drive. And so on ...



It's funny, he complains about people not listening to HIS arguments and/or not responding to some of them...hmmm, sounds familiar?!?!



Currently Playing:

PS4 - Killzone:SF and Assasins Creed 4

 

XBox One: BF4, CoD:Ghosts, Dead Rising 3, Forza 5

 

Changing channels with my voice: priceless!!!

@ oli2

Well I know people developing for the Cell, anyway: 

Insomniac:

"The amount of action we're able to put on the screen at 60 frames per second really dwarfs what we were able to do a year ago at 30 frames per second," said Hastings. "What's most exciting is the way things are headed right now I think we'll see just as big a leap from our second generation engine to our third as we did from the first to second."

Looking ahead, he was equally as optimistic: "We're already seeing a big leap in what people are able to do with the PS3 now compared to a year ago, and we're going to see just as big a leap between now and the end of 2008," said the Insomniac Games Chief Creative Officer. "I think we're going to continue seeing major leaps each year in what people are able to do with the machine for at least three or four more years."

And how are future games going to look better? It seems it's all down to the use of the much talked about PlayStation 3 SPUs, which until now haven't been fully used by developers.

"The tech and gameplay teams have moved tons of things over to the SPUs that used to run on the PPU," said Hastings on the improvements made to Insomniac's game engine. "Collision and physics are entirely running on SPUs now, which allows us to put much more on the screen at once than we were able to with Resistance. Moving more and more code to the SPUs is an ongoing process and I think we'll continue to see major benefits from this for several more years."

Sucker Punch Productions:

"For us, the most exciting part of the PS3 has been the cell processor, the SPUs specifically. In our highest density scenes right now, we are currently using about 30 percent of the SPUs' capabilities--with the SPUs doing lots of heavy lifting for us on rendering, visibility, particle systems, skinning, animation blending, and so on...this with scores of pedestrians, cars, fires, etc., all going on. And the best part? We've not made any significant attempts to even optimize the SPU code. I think it's reasonable to guess we could put 10 times as much stuff on the SPUs and still make our frame budgets. It's really pretty amazing."

Guerrilla Games:

"We've created our own proprietary technology to drive the game, and this is using many of PS3's specific strengths.Large quantities of data can be streamed because we have a great deal of storage capacity. This allows for the level of detail you can see in the game.

It is not a luxury to have Blu-ray, but rather a necessity, as compression only gets you so far. I mean, the level that we showed at E3 and Leipzig topped out around 2GB! Also having the CELL and SPUs means we can offload all of our physics processing to an SPU, or process AI using the SPU's. All this processing power just means we can add more detail and create that Hollywood-type realism we're after."

Naughty Dog:

"The PlayStation 3 has a lot of power. When we started Uncharted we were really ambitious and had no idea what the PS3 would give us. Once we got the first devkits, we realized quickly that we could do everything we had planned to. The three main points for me are the Cell, Blu-Ray and the hard drive. We’ve been using the Cell for pretty much all our systems: rendering, particles, physics simulation, collision detection, animation, AI, decompression, water simulation, etc … and to give you an idea of the power of the PS3, we're using only 30 percent of the Cell processor.

In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it; with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res quality on the screen. "

Hate us all you want, it doesn't matter to us. You're going to hear much more things you don't wanna hear in the future, like it or not.

Now, can we please get back on topic? Any interesting data or perspectives you want to share?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@ WEWdeadeye

he complains about people not listening to HIS arguments and/or not responding to some of them...hmmm


I think I have been the most responsive in this thread, addressing almost any of the comments. What have I missed? If you don't want to derail this thread any further feel free to send me a private message.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

@MikeB - its fine, you are entitled to your opinions - which is all they are. I still think you keep missing the point, and hopefully as time goes on you will change your tune.

BTW - so if the Wii & PS3 are "selling as you expect", what do you expect to happen next year and beyond? I just want to get something in writing - so if actually have a common reference point to see how correct you are in the future...

(for myself - check back over threads from months ago... I openly said that "sales of all consoles will equalize over Xmas", and that the real battle begins AFTER the holiday season '07 is completed. Apart from the console software weakness in Japan, everything is going as I expected/predicted as well...).



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