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Forums - Sony Discussion - Jack Tretton Takes Aim at Natal.

Squilliam on 20 March 2010
thismeintiel said:


@ Squilliam

I don't see how you can just dismiss the inspiration MS most likely took from the Eye Toy and give it the Wii (even though Natal is mostly a camera and not a bar of infrared sensors), just because you deem Eye Toy a failure. Especially since Eye Toy was a success, given that is was an accessory not needed to play the vast majority of games.

It was released in mid-late 2003 in EU and NA, 3 years before the PS3's release. In Japan it was released early 2004, just over 2 years before the PS3 was set to release. In in that time it went on to sell over 10.5 mil units. Unfortunately, as the PS3's launch grew nearer, the software support for it dried up. However, 10.5 mil sold would have to be a success in most people's books, especially since some analysts think that Natal and Move will sell around the same or less. To put it in perspective, the Gamecube and X-box were only able to sell around twice that amount of units for each of their consoles in their entire lifetime.

Because quite simply the Natal interface has more commonality with the Wiimote than it does the Eyetoy. The Wiimote device at principle runs off a IR camera and an IR source, the Natal interface does the same. The only difference is that the IR source and camera are on the one device. Hence the fact that Natal bears a closer resemblence to the Wiimote and its existance as an interface has more to do with the success of the Wiimote than any inspiration from the lack of relative success the Eyetoy had. Since the main part of the interface doesn't even use the same spectrum of light as the Eyetoy its pretty foolish to draw a connection.

Oh and Microsoft has been working on new interfaces since before the mid 90s. Natal is probably the first real product to come out of a ton of research and development. Had the eyetoy not existed, the inordinant about of money spent on R+D by Microsoft on new interface technologies would have been spent. Arguably they had the precursers to Natal long before Sony even released the Eyetoy.



Tease.

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M.U.G.E.N on 20 March 2010
Squilliam said:
thismeintiel said:


@ Squilliam

I don't see how you can just dismiss the inspiration MS most likely took from the Eye Toy and give it the Wii (even though Natal is mostly a camera and not a bar of infrared sensors), just because you deem Eye Toy a failure. Especially since Eye Toy was a success, given that is was an accessory not needed to play the vast majority of games.

It was released in mid-late 2003 in EU and NA, 3 years before the PS3's release. In Japan it was released early 2004, just over 2 years before the PS3 was set to release. In in that time it went on to sell over 10.5 mil units. Unfortunately, as the PS3's launch grew nearer, the software support for it dried up. However, 10.5 mil sold would have to be a success in most people's books, especially since some analysts think that Natal and Move will sell around the same or less. To put it in perspective, the Gamecube and X-box were only able to sell around twice that amount of units for each of their consoles in their entire lifetime.

Because quite simply the Natal interface has more commonality with the Wiimote than it does the Eyetoy. The Wiimote device at principle runs off a IR camera and an IR source, the Natal interface does the same. The only difference is that the IR source and camera are on the one device. Hence the fact that Natal bears a closer resemblence to the Wiimote and its existance as an interface has more to do with the success of the Wiimote than any inspiration from the lack of relative success the Eyetoy had. Since the main part of the interface doesn't even use the same spectrum of light as the Eyetoy its pretty foolish to draw a connection.

Oh and Microsoft has been working on new interfaces since before the mid 90s. Natal is probably the first real product to come out of a ton of research and development. Had the eyetoy not existed, the inordinant about of money spent on R+D by Microsoft on new interface technologies would have been spent. Arguably they had the precursers to Natal long before Sony even released the Eyetoy.

You do realize Natal got its tech from a DIFFERENT company right? or do you have any proof MS was working on that tech for ages? Would love to see it

Eyetoy and Natal both uses a camera to detect movement, if that isn't as close as it gets your just in denial



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Adobo on 20 March 2010

sony PS3 is God.



Squilliam on 20 March 2010
M.U.G.E.N said:
Squilliam said:

Because quite simply the Natal interface has more commonality with the Wiimote than it does the Eyetoy. The Wiimote device at principle runs off a IR camera and an IR source, the Natal interface does the same. The only difference is that the IR source and camera are on the one device. Hence the fact that Natal bears a closer resemblence to the Wiimote and its existance as an interface has more to do with the success of the Wiimote than any inspiration from the lack of relative success the Eyetoy had. Since the main part of the interface doesn't even use the same spectrum of light as the Eyetoy its pretty foolish to draw a connection.

Oh and Microsoft has been working on new interfaces since before the mid 90s. Natal is probably the first real product to come out of a ton of research and development. Had the eyetoy not existed, the inordinant about of money spent on R+D by Microsoft on new interface technologies would have been spent. Arguably they had the precursers to Natal long before Sony even released the Eyetoy.

You do realize Natal got its tech from a DIFFERENT company right? or do you have any proof MS was working on that tech for ages? Would love to see it

Eyetoy and Natal both uses a camera to detect movement, if that isn't as close as it gets your just in denial

Why would I need proof? Its built into your Windows operating system in the voice control, its built into the Surface computer, into the Windows Mobile operating system, Microsoft Tablet format and that tech came from Microsoft labs. We also know that Natal wasn't even going to be a console interface until the Xbox guys coopted it.

The Eyetoy is nothing, its no inspiration for anything. The lack of success of the Eyetoy isn't inspiration to spend half a billion dollars on a new interface and to bet the future of a console on it. The Wiimote on the other hand is inspiration and thats the reason why Natal exists as a console interface. The Eyetoy may as well not exist because Sony did so very little with it in the first place.



Tease.

thismeintiel on 20 March 2010
Squilliam said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
Squilliam said:

Because quite simply the Natal interface has more commonality with the Wiimote than it does the Eyetoy. The Wiimote device at principle runs off a IR camera and an IR source, the Natal interface does the same. The only difference is that the IR source and camera are on the one device. Hence the fact that Natal bears a closer resemblence to the Wiimote and its existance as an interface has more to do with the success of the Wiimote than any inspiration from the lack of relative success the Eyetoy had. Since the main part of the interface doesn't even use the same spectrum of light as the Eyetoy its pretty foolish to draw a connection.

Oh and Microsoft has been working on new interfaces since before the mid 90s. Natal is probably the first real product to come out of a ton of research and development. Had the eyetoy not existed, the inordinant about of money spent on R+D by Microsoft on new interface technologies would have been spent. Arguably they had the precursers to Natal long before Sony even released the Eyetoy.

You do realize Natal got its tech from a DIFFERENT company right? or do you have any proof MS was working on that tech for ages? Would love to see it

Eyetoy and Natal both uses a camera to detect movement, if that isn't as close as it gets your just in denial

Why would I need proof? Its built into your Windows operating system in the voice control, its built into the Surface computer, into the Windows Mobile operating system, Microsoft Tablet format and that tech came from Microsoft labs. We also know that Natal wasn't even going to be a console interface until the Xbox guys coopted it.

The Eyetoy is nothing, its no inspiration for anything. The lack of success of the Eyetoy isn't inspiration to spend half a billion dollars on a new interface and to bet the future of a console on it. The Wiimote on the other hand is inspiration and thats the reason why Natal exists as a console interface. The Eyetoy may as well not exist because Sony did so very little with it in the first place.

Wow.  I was going to actually start a conversation with you.  But after that outburst, I can see you are biased in your thinking.  I will admit that Natal pulls its inspiration from more than the EyeToy/PSEye.  It's more of a combination of the Eye and the tech found in the Wii.  However, you don't think they are pulling off everything (facial recognition, vocal recognition, and tracking) with just a set of infrared sensors do you?  No, of course not.  They are also using a motion camera, kinda like the one found in the Eye. 

But again, I will no longer debate you, since I provided proof that the Eye Toy was not a failure or nothing, as you so boldly put it.  You do realize that most likely without the beginning push of the Eye Toy, the first truly successful motion controler for a console, we might not even have had the interest of Nintendo to make it better.  Like I said before, no good idea stems from one source.  It's a collection of "copies" and improvements. 

Also, I hope for MS sake that after what you say is ~20 yrs R&D for them, they can fix the lag issues of Natal.  If not, then Natal will be a failure.  And if it is, I also hope that you won't feel too bad.  You seem to have so much faith riding on it.



 

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9009pc on 20 March 2010
Squilliam said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
Squilliam said:

Because quite simply the Natal interface has more commonality with the Wiimote than it does the Eyetoy. The Wiimote device at principle runs off a IR camera and an IR source, the Natal interface does the same. The only difference is that the IR source and camera are on the one device. Hence the fact that Natal bears a closer resemblence to the Wiimote and its existance as an interface has more to do with the success of the Wiimote than any inspiration from the lack of relative success the Eyetoy had. Since the main part of the interface doesn't even use the same spectrum of light as the Eyetoy its pretty foolish to draw a connection.

Oh and Microsoft has been working on new interfaces since before the mid 90s. Natal is probably the first real product to come out of a ton of research and development. Had the eyetoy not existed, the inordinant about of money spent on R+D by Microsoft on new interface technologies would have been spent. Arguably they had the precursers to Natal long before Sony even released the Eyetoy.

You do realize Natal got its tech from a DIFFERENT company right? or do you have any proof MS was working on that tech for ages? Would love to see it

Eyetoy and Natal both uses a camera to detect movement, if that isn't as close as it gets your just in denial

Why would I need proof? Its built into your Windows operating system in the voice control, its built into the Surface computer, into the Windows Mobile operating system, Microsoft Tablet format and that tech came from Microsoft labs. We also know that Natal wasn't even going to be a console interface until the Xbox guys coopted it.

The Eyetoy is nothing, its no inspiration for anything. The lack of success of the Eyetoy isn't inspiration to spend half a billion dollars on a new interface and to bet the future of a console on it. The Wiimote on the other hand is inspiration and thats the reason why Natal exists as a console interface. The Eyetoy may as well not exist because Sony did so very little with it in the first place.

from what I see you are both right microsoft has been interested in this tech for a good we while now they already had a camera for the 360, and they say they had been working on a lot of vision library stuff but the majority of the tech comes from 3dv systems, that is what I have seen happening.



correct me if I am wrong
stop me if I am bias
I love a good civilised debate (but only if we can learn something).

 

Squilliam on 20 March 2010
thismeintiel said:

Wow.  I was going to actually start a conversation with you.  But after that outburst, I can see you are biased in your thinking.  I will admit that Natal pulls its inspiration from more than the EyeToy/PSEye.  It's more of a combination of the Eye and the tech found in the Wii.  However, you don't think they are pulling off everything (facial recognition, vocal recognition, and tracking) with just a set of infrared sensors do you?  No, of course not.  They are also using a motion camera, kinda like the one found in the Eye. 

But again, I will no longer debate you, since I provided proof that the Eye Toy was not a failure or nothing, as you so boldly put it.  You do realize that most likely without the beginning push of the Eye Toy, the first truly successful motion controler for a console, we might not even have had the interest of Nintendo to make it better.  Like I said before, no good idea stems from one source.  It's a collection of "copies" and improvements. 

Also, I hope for MS sake that after what you say is ~20 yrs R&D for them, they can fix the lag issues of Natal.  If not, then Natal will be a failure.  And if it is, I also hope that you won't feel too bad.  You seem to have so much faith riding on it.

I never said the Eyetoy was a failure. Its just not good enough as inspiration to base an entire console relaunch on.

Btw the tolerance for lag is 0 for a natural interface. So even if the Move is latency free the fact that the game itself has 150ms of overall latency would be noticeable in a way that isn't obvious with a controller.



Tease.

richardhutnik on 20 March 2010
qmoney88 said:
I also doubt that most of you have any kind of sex life, because I couldnt imagine any real woman dealing with the childish bullshit half of you post on here on a daily basis.

You mean there is a need for guys to get sex lives before the quality of posting goes up?  WE BE DOOOOOMED!



dirkd2323 on 20 March 2010

These threads are great, I love reading everyones comments. There are so many just angry people out there, life is short, relax. Believe me its taken me awhile to do this myself, but you really will feel better.



qmoney88 on 21 March 2010
CommonMan said:
qmoney88 said:
I also doubt that most of you have any kind of sex life, because I couldnt imagine any real woman dealing with the childish bullshit half of you post on here on a daily basis.

But I've noticed women love men who blindly insult large groups of people, they find arrogance sexy.


Lmao, ill have to look into it



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