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Forums - General Discussion - Why do people vote for Hilary and Obama?

ripper said:
@fkusumot

almost forgot... bet you wouldn't say any of that to my face punk!

you look like bjork, elton john, and prince had a threesome and you are the dwarf love child

 I'll say it to your face. Where do you want to meet?



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“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Is allegedly a Winston Churchill Quote, but none of the sources have.. well, the time of speech or publication it's written in.

Of course, the quote you're saying has about 70 variations, (Including one that just uses communism twice) and no one really knows who actually said it. Churchill center claims he didn't. Fascinating quote though, does it mean that conservatism comes from the efforts of a liberal youth, and one hopes to keep the changes they spent their years struggling for, or is it the ultimate resignation, things aren't going to get better, despite the fact things constantly change, so I'll try to stop the change anyway? As one grows older, new ideas are less valid to be considered?

For far too many, politics is less about the best method to improve ones self, one's people, one's country, one's world, and more about praising those of similar opinions and cursing those with different. Many answers, but no absolutes. Sadly, saying that is kinda like saying "Well, gee, being president is hard" like Bush said, but it is. Of course, if he didn't know that or realize that, umm, well, then that's deserving of mockery.

Best part about politics: Even when the results come in, people will disagree on what caused it. For instance: Democratic presidents ride the economic boom caused by Republican presidential policies that show their true effect about 1 year into their term. Some people believe that fervently. To disagree would demand proof, but like proving an atheist the existence of God, you need some pretty intense proof with the way politics are to convince someone. Sometimes, that proof just doesn't exist.



See Ya George.

"He did not die - He passed Away"

At least following a comedians own jokes makes his death easier.

fkusumot said:
Sqrl said:

PS - I hope to whatever person/idea you hold dear that YOU...yes YOU..the reader can agree that a law should be written about one topic only. If people can't see the benefit in a law being written for the sake of that law only and with all of the focus on that topic then I think the world in general is a lot further down the drain than I had thought. This is such a fundamental concept it frightens me that it needs to be stated....its like breathing...only more obvious (I'm just being facetious now).

edit: OMG, I just realized what this is....senators have been trolling each other's bills for 80+ years....LMAO


It's a nice idea but I think it would need a constitutional amendment to become a reality. One of the supposed effects of this would be that the president would get a de facto line-item veto power which congress does not want to give to the executive branch. I don't know how it would work if such a law were written that "a law should be written about one topic only" but in principle I definitely agree with you.


 I think the line item veto is a horrible idea also, both sides would just abuse it to hell and back, and I think we all know how much all politicians love to abuse their power. Also I definitely agree that the only way to permenantly put a stop to the stupidity that is pork is an amendment to the constitution.  But I also think that it is something that just about anyone can get behind....anyone except corrupt politicians lining their pockets that is.

 

I realise it is more than likely a pipe dream as the best way to make sure something never becomes a law is to have it be simple and basic common sense. 



To Each Man, Responsibility
Fuzzmosis said:
“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Is allegedly a Winston Churchill Quote, but none of the sources have.. well, the time of speech or publication it's written in.

Of course, the quote you're saying has about 70 variations, (Including one that just uses communism twice) and no one really knows who actually said it. Churchill center claims he didn't. Fascinating quote though, does it mean that conservatism comes from the efforts of a liberal youth, and one hopes to keep the changes they spent their years struggling for, or is it the ultimate resignation, things aren't going to get better, despite the fact things constantly change, so I'll try to stop the change anyway? As one grows older, new ideas are less valid to be considered?

For far too many, politics is less about the best method to improve ones self, one's people, one's country, one's world, and more about praising those of similar opinions and cursing those with different. Many answers, but no absolutes. Sadly, saying that is kinda like saying "Well, gee, being president is hard" like Bush said, but it is. Of course, if he didn't know that or realize that, umm, well, then that's deserving of mockery.

Best part about politics: Even when the results come in, people will disagree on what caused it. For instance: Democratic presidents ride the economic boom caused by Republican presidential policies that show their true effect about 1 year into their term. Some people believe that fervently. To disagree would demand proof, but like proving an atheist the existence of God, you need some pretty intense proof with the way politics are to convince someone. Sometimes, that proof just doesn't exist.

 President's have very little effect on causing economic booms or busts, congress has a bit more effect, but the fed is much more influential on the course of the economy



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

steverhcp02 said:
elprincipe said:
Nintendownsmii said:
leo-j said:
Hilary is going to give free medicare for everyone..

Umm... have you even heard her policy? It is NOT free. Infact those who currently can't, or choose not to, pay for health care will get screwed because she will make it law that you have to have health care.


This is a common misconception, especially among underage folks who know little about politics like leo-j. OMGWTFBBQ, the government is paying for it so that means it's FREE!!11!111! Anyone who knows anything will realize that government, being less efficient than the private sector in every single thing it ever has done in its history, will spend more of our money (involuntarily, unlike the current system) on health care than we do now, and the service will be worse. Or we will spend the same amount and the service will be much, much worse. Or we will spend a ton more and the service will be the same. Bottom line, we, the taxpayers, lose. Although I guess leo-j doesn't pay taxes, so no big deal, right?


I touche don this briefly in my earlier post. I pay my taxes, i live pretty damn well as im sure everyone on here does, owning a game system and having internet access.....ive got a PS3, a roof over my head, a good family that loves me, this laptop, high speed internet....i, like almost every american who complains about taxpayers losing, can EASILY afford the extra hike in taxes. Alas, we are a selfish, selfish country, we look out for only ouselves (which is funny that most of those people up in arms about not paying more taxes so folks can get dialysis or prescriptions are okay with senidn my friends and kids to die for a civil war on foreign soil) Its all about the dollar and outta site outta mind (great wilco song by the way, hehe).

We bitch as americans when our taxes are touched to aid folks in need in this country, but dont care about billions of dollars, not to mention human life being spent to help folks thousands of miles away. An interesting time indeed where a couple thouasnd young men and women are worth a foreign civil war, but god forbid we pay an extra $50 or so a month to provide healthcare in the richest country on earth. Intersting indeed.

 

The war is justified by those handful of folks that want us there and embrace us, yet the majority do not....however, when it comes to health care in this country, the mantra is the opposite....we cant think of it because of the minority that wil abuse it and ignore the majority that need it. We socialized primary and secondary education, the mail system.....its possible, it can be done other countries utilize it, there are instances of slow care, there are always certain stories, theres always two sides....but id like to error on the side of giving up a couple of nights out my with my girlfriend and some new clothes a year to help some folks in this country with the terrible burden and worry that comes with not being able to provide healthcare for their families....but thats just, imo.


I am not talking about the war, I am talking about government-run health care.  First off, I would say never assume, since you don't know my thoughts on the war in the least, nor are they related to government-run health care.

That said, yes, of course we could afford it.  We could afford 100% taxes if the government provided 100% of everything we need.  But you know what?  I don't like that system.  Not only don't I like that system, it's been tried before and failed miserably.  And that's what we'll be if government takes over health care:  miserable.  I'll say it again:  there is nothing in the history of government that has ever been run more efficiently than the private sector does it.  Sure, there are some things that by necessity must be run by the government (military, foreign relations and a few more), but making us pay more taxes because "we can afford it" is pretty dumb.  I don't know about you, but I'd rather make my own financial (and other) decisions instead of having the government screw them up for me.



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takeru51 said:
 

Believe it or not, you're the one with the common misconception. Do you think that the United States is the only industrialized country without socialized medicine because it's better that way? Please, we've been lied to about public healthcare for decades. Our country has become worse over the past 4-5 decades as we've lost many of the government assitance programs that made oppertunity so widespread here. Ronald Raegan was the worst thing to ever happen to this country, I would argue he was even a worse president than George Bush or Richard Nixon because it was Raegan who did such disasterous damage to the people, then lied to our faces about it. If you want more clarification of this, please just ask me. I could write pages on the regression our country has been going through over the past few decades, but to get back to the original point, you are very, very, wrong.


Better in your opinion, surely?  But if you feel our country has become worse over the past 40-50 years I don't know what to tell you.  When life expectancy, quality of living and income all are drastically up, I don't feel anyone can say that with a straight face personally.

BTW, what bothered you so much about Reagan? 



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Kytiara said:
 

You have a very high and mighty view of a healthcare system ranked 37th by the WHO. At least up here in Canada we admit our system isn't perfect.


I think it will suffice to say that no, I didn't mean to say our system is perfect.  Far from it.  There are a lot of things that should be changed.  But having the government take it over would be a horrible mistake.



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z64dan said:
 

OK here's the difference between the USA and Canada: The USA can do whatever it wants because we have a huge military and like a bajillion missles. Canada has like 3 boats and a guy on a horse.


Actually, Canada has been very involved with peacekeeping operations over the years, and also has a significant amount of forces currently in Afghanistan.  Please don't try to criticize what you know little/nothing about.



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Everyone get this straight: Ron Paul is sincere and dedicated to his ideals and if elected he will work as hard as he can to make those ideals into national policy. He isn't a slave to special interests and he won't be if he gets into office.

HOWEVER

His ideals are somewhere between misguided and lunatic. He has absolutely no respect for Thomas Jefferson's "wall of separation between church and state" (he thinks the Founding Fathers intended no such thing) and he thinks it would be great if the church had more earthly power than the state (a.k.a. theocracy). He says that the Constitution is riddled with references to God (there are zero).

On the secular front, he is in favor of privatization and deregulation of pretty much EVERYTHING. Political theory aside, there are some areas where it is proven that the "invisible hand" does absolutely NOTHING to protect society from corporate depredations (the environment) and there are others where the private sector has proven completely incompetent (airlines).

He also thinks that there is a cabal/conspiracy to build a gigantic superhighway from Canada to Mexico as part of a master scheme to unite the entire continent into one economic entity -- one currency, etc. This is, um, not true.

Ron Paul has more honesty and integrity than any other Republican running for office. That doesn't mean you should vote for him, even if you're going to vote Republican.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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That said, yes, of course we could afford it. We could afford 100% taxes if the government provided 100% of everything we need. But you know what? I don't like that system. Not only don't I like that system, it's been tried before and failed miserably. And that's what we'll be if government takes over health care: miserable. I'll say it again: there is nothing in the history of government that has ever been run more efficiently than the private sector does it. Sure, there are some things that by necessity must be run by the government (military, foreign relations and a few more), but making us pay more taxes because "we can afford it" is pretty dumb. I don't know about you, but I'd rather make my own financial (and other) decisions instead of having the government screw them up for me.

Why do you put up this communist strawman? It'd be closer to the truth to accuse Ron Paul of wanting to completely abolish all government above the county level. But I'm not accusing him of that, because even if it's true in his heart of hearts I have no evidence to back it up.

Oh, and the privately run airlines are a fucking joke. A joke that the government has to step in and bail out about every decade. How is that "more efficiently" run?

I don't want my tax dollars wasted on inefficiently run, shitty programs that don't benefit the country. Therefore, I want the government to take back the airlines so our tax dollars won't keep lining the pockets of the airline companies.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!