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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Linearity": Why all the fuss?

famousringo said:
Garnett said:
Because this isnt 1985 and we have the tech to do more advanced shit.

This is about game design. Technology has little to do with it. Metroid was non-linear back in 1986, Ultima IV was even less linear in 1985.

That was a 2D game, i hate Linear 3D games.

 

We can blow entire buildings up and we have 7 core processor and a bunch of other good shit but we make our game hall way shooters.



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spenderzz said:
There was a time in my life when hearing that a game was linear was a death sentence, because I relished the chance to immerse myself in a world, roam around, and find my own way. Over the years, though, a weird thing has happened to me. In extremely open games, I tend to become paralyzed with fear that I am making the wrong choices to the point that I find it difficult to play. Every time a conversation choice pops up in Heavy Rain, I have a miniature panic attack. It has actually worked out, because me panicking has led to some pretty funny and interesting results, but I find it legitimately emotionally taxing trying to make choices in video games, which is strange.


Agree with completely lol. I thought I was the only one. I'm the type of person that SAVES before I do ANYTHING then right after I complete a mission I save it AGAIN and go do the other mission to see if it turns out better. I need linear expierences so I won't go crazy.

I also hate talking to every single NPC in every single town getting items and what not. If I don't I feel like I'm missing out on something. FFXIII can be a very streamlined satisfiying expierence without all the breaks in awesome gameplay and story to talk to idiot townspeople.



epicurean said:
burgerstein said:
epicurean said:

I don't mind side quests if the objective is clear.  I just remember playing the newest Zelda on Wii and getting to the part where the guy kept pushing you off the cliff.  I spent an hour trying to figure how to get passed it (and that was the only way to continue).  Eventually I looked up the guide and you had to go two towns back and talk to the mayor and fight him...but there was no way whatsoever of knowing that.  So players are apparently just supposed to go talk to every single character in the game up until that point till they hit pay dirt.  I just don't see how that is fun.


Just gott say. When you leave the area where the Goron knocks you down, the Native Americna looking guy stops you and tells you exactly what to do. Also, in pretty much every Zelda since OoT there's a character with you at all times who will tell you what to do if you get stuck. I understand how you could not know to talk to Midna, but the other guy tells you exactly what to do and there's no way to avoid talking to him. I don't see why you'd lie about that so it's very confusing.

OT: People like to make choices, even if the choices are meaningless (hence dialogue trees with one result). Linear games limit the ability of the palyer to make choices. Genrally speaking ofcourse.


All I can say is I'm not lying.  Im not sure which character you're talking about (I haven't played it since it came out).  Perhaps I missed something, but at the time I was very frustrated, and I sure don't remember a character that I could talk to at any time that told me where to go.  And calling me a "liar" makes me wish there was an ignore button from here on out for you.

Edit: Perhaps you weren't calling me a liar...can't quite tell...


I didn't mean to call you liar. What I meant was I can't imagine why you'd lie about it. perhaps you just skipped through that guy's dialogue.  Anyway, my intent was mostly to defend the game. It's actually quite linear for a Zelda game.



"Now, a fun game should always be easy to understand - you should be able to take one look at it and know what you have to do straight away. It should be so well constructed that you can tell at a glance what your goal is and, even if you don’t succeed, you’ll blame yourself rather than the game. Moreover, the people standing around watching the game have also got to be able to enjoy it." - Shiggy

A Koopa's Revenge II gameplay video

burgerstein said:
epicurean said:
burgerstein said:
epicurean said:

I don't mind side quests if the objective is clear.  I just remember playing the newest Zelda on Wii and getting to the part where the guy kept pushing you off the cliff.  I spent an hour trying to figure how to get passed it (and that was the only way to continue).  Eventually I looked up the guide and you had to go two towns back and talk to the mayor and fight him...but there was no way whatsoever of knowing that.  So players are apparently just supposed to go talk to every single character in the game up until that point till they hit pay dirt.  I just don't see how that is fun.


Just gott say. When you leave the area where the Goron knocks you down, the Native Americna looking guy stops you and tells you exactly what to do. Also, in pretty much every Zelda since OoT there's a character with you at all times who will tell you what to do if you get stuck. I understand how you could not know to talk to Midna, but the other guy tells you exactly what to do and there's no way to avoid talking to him. I don't see why you'd lie about that so it's very confusing.

OT: People like to make choices, even if the choices are meaningless (hence dialogue trees with one result). Linear games limit the ability of the palyer to make choices. Genrally speaking ofcourse.


All I can say is I'm not lying.  Im not sure which character you're talking about (I haven't played it since it came out).  Perhaps I missed something, but at the time I was very frustrated, and I sure don't remember a character that I could talk to at any time that told me where to go.  And calling me a "liar" makes me wish there was an ignore button from here on out for you.

Edit: Perhaps you weren't calling me a liar...can't quite tell...


I didn't mean to call you liar. What I meant was I can't imagine why you'd lie about it. perhaps you just skipped through that guy's dialogue.  Anyway, my intent was mostly to defend the game. It's actually quite linear for a Zelda game.

Fair enough.  All I know is I was incredibly frustrated.  I honestly spent over an hour just trying to get around the guy pushing me off the cliff, then more time exploring the immediate area trying to find a secret path or something.  All I can say is I hadn't played a Zelda game since the orginals on the NES, and that part completely turned me off.  Sucks if its just because I missed something obvious.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

I don't mind linear games, but if it's open world it has to be done right. For example, GTA games and their clones do it wrong. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series both do it perfectly.



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I don't think it's the linearity that's a problem in games. It's about how a game is "narrated."

Movies and books are "linear" and there has been no game ever made that has come even to the halfway up to the best movies made when it comes to character development, thought provocation, or really just about anything you think of that applies to a movie or a book.

If you look at Half-Life, especially the second one, the game is extremely linear. However the way it is narrated, by taking what makes a video game a video game, changes everything. It feels open, it feels different every time you play it. On the other spectrum of linearity is MGS4 which is basically just a movie. Many people, anyone who would call themselves more serious about art, thought the game was bad as a game because of its narration. Many of those same people will praise Half-Life 2 narration as amazing and brilliant. I tend to agree with those people, since video games have to stick with what the medium is strong at, and that's the ability to give a person the ability to act. Provoking thought in games must be different than other media because movies and books have those in trumping aces and makes any video game that attempts it just laughable (again, I will bring up MGS4) to outside people.

As an example, any time Freeman was powerless and unable to move in HL2 felt more disconcerting than any tribulation good ol' Snake went through. Watching any Snake struggle felt like watching a movie, or reading a descriptive book, that is I was rooting for the guy, but was not all too concerned about him. With Freeman, I got the feeling of helplessness any time his movement was restricted.

I have started to digress so I will keep this short. It's not linearity that people have started to complain, I believe the recent gamers have begun to realize that there is more to this medium than just copying movies. It's not the linearity, it's the narration of the game. You can have the most linear game ever, but still be praised as long as it has a narrative where the player has something invested, and is not just a movie shoehorned into video game medium.



tl;dr version: It's not linearity, but the way a game is presented with which people are having problems.