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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Linearity": Why all the fuss?

spenderzz said:
Xoj said:
WRPG will never have a "sephiroth" or a "Aeris".

WRPG is not my favorite genre, but you just made one of the strongest arguments in favor of why it should be.

 

In all seriousness, though, I don't see what Sephiroth has to do with a discussion on linear JRPGS.  Are you saying that because FFVII was relatively linear, it allowed them to make a character as awesome as Sephiroth?  For one thing, FFVII was not aggressively linear, for another, JRPGs brought us Kefka from FF6, a 10x better character than Sephiroth in a game that was far more open-world (second half at least).

again it's not open after second half of the game, the only difference it's it have "world map"  that really block tons of place until it let run free.

the difference to FFX-XIII instead of walking from point to point, u know go there by selecting.

as for sephiroth, it was because unlike fable/oblivion or any other JRPG, character design have the freedom to make his character with more universal appeal, like WRPG makes u choose how it his personality will be. in JRPG character freedom it's in how they will operate in battle,

either how they get their skills or what job they will operate, and even if you don't like it, sephiroth, aeris and rikku are loved or hated by millions, something that u will never see in a wrpg.

as freedom the only thing u really loose in FF31 it's that your other party member are controlled by the AI.

what job they operate or if or where you can go (it's the same as previous FF). you are not given full control until later.



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famousringo said:
The danger of a linear game is that it may leave the player feeling powerless, like s/he's just along for the ride and doesn't really have any control. The player feels herded and restrained, and it's not a very fun experience.

The danger of a game that's too open is that the game may feel aimless. Presented with so many choices, it's hard to feel like any of them have much meaning. An NPC says, "Hurry up and do this story mission," but the player wanders around doing whatever s/he pleases with no real urgency. It leaves the game feeling unfocused and detached.

The trick is to strike the right balance between the two extremes for your game, then mix in other elements that combat the weakness of too much openness or linearity. If your game is linear, take measures to ensure that the player feels powerful and free, rather than strung along by the game designer. If your game is open, make sure to give the game a sense of structure and meaning, so that the player doesn't get lost is a sea of choices, indecision turning to apathy.

I think this comment rings true. I think Half-Life 2 is a great example of a linear game that does a great job of making you believe that you're actually a part of a large open world. There are of course others. Uncharted 1 & 2 and God of War also do a good job of giving large scale to a linear experience. And also Crysis gives the impression of being a a large island, and each individual level is fairly large, but the actual path you take in the game is very linear. On the other hand, Fallout 3 and Oblivion do good jobs of the opposite having a large and open worlds but being well structured in their quests so you don't get too lost.

I will add though it does depend on genre and somewhat on expectations. If the next Elder Scrolls game had a strictly linear path it would probably score very poorly. Whilst the story in Final Fantasy has always been linear, many of the previous games had a lot of free roaming with towns making the world more believable and immersive. Having not played XIII yet I can't comment on it individually, but if you have an established series, certain elements are going to be well-loved (such as a free or at least the impression of a free and open-world), and their omission can cause people to criticise the title for it.



Theres nothing wrong with linearity.

It's only an' issue if linearity shortly follows anything Final Fantasy.

Mainly because i think after such a long amount of dev time alot of us expected to explore a huge fantasy world. but instead...



Xoj said:
spenderzz said:
Xoj said:
WRPG will never have a "sephiroth" or a "Aeris".

WRPG is not my favorite genre, but you just made one of the strongest arguments in favor of why it should be.

 

In all seriousness, though, I don't see what Sephiroth has to do with a discussion on linear JRPGS.  Are you saying that because FFVII was relatively linear, it allowed them to make a character as awesome as Sephiroth?  For one thing, FFVII was not aggressively linear, for another, JRPGs brought us Kefka from FF6, a 10x better character than Sephiroth in a game that was far more open-world (second half at least).

again it's not open after second half of the game, the only difference it's it have "world map"  that really block tons of place until it let run free.

the difference to FFX-XIII instead of walking from point to point, u know go there by selecting.

as for sephiroth, it was because unlike fable/oblivion or any other JRPG, character design have the freedom to make his character with more universal appeal, like WRPG makes u choose how it his personality will be. in JRPG character freedom it's in how they will operate in battle,

either how they get their skills or what job they will operate, and even if you don't like it, sephiroth, aeris and rikku are loved or hated by millions, something that u will never see in a wrpg.

as freedom the only thing u really loose in FF31 it's that your other party member are controlled by the AI.

what job they operate or if or where you can go (it's the same as previous FF). you are not given full control until later.

I'm not sure that's true for the characters you mentioned. Their respective games sold many millions and I think that's why these characters are so remebered, loved and hated. There are plenty of characters in WRPGs that are memorable, in many ways more memorable than those in JRPGs. Although your main character is typically created by you, the characters around you are very important, and I find the input and influence you can have on them, especially in more recent games makes them more endearing. It just happens that WRPGs in the past weren't as popular as the top JRPGs (at least in the mainstream).

As WRPGs grow in popularity I fully expect characters from recent Bioware games to be remembered and loved in years to come. Characters like Morrigan and Zevran in Dragon Age, or Miranda, Jack or Mordin from Mass Effect 2. Hell, I went to a convention a few months ago and saw someone cosplaying as Darth Revan from KoToR among a typical JRPG crowd.



I can't really justify it, but I get bored in linear rpgs unless they are otherwise incredible. This goes for character development as well. If, by the end of the game, I will have taken the same path as every other player and my characters will be identical, then I don't see the point.

But then again I played pen and paper rpgs like dungeons and dragons for years before I ever touched computer rpgs.

If you enjoy linear games then good for you, more games for you to play



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Because this isnt 1985 and we have the tech to do more advanced shit.



I think ever game is linear no matter what,because its not like you are going to discover a ending no one has seen,the developers make the ending and a certain way to get to it um a certain path one line..linear



Garnett said:
Because this isnt 1985 and we have the tech to do more advanced shit.

This is about game design. Technology has little to do with it. Metroid was non-linear back in 1986, Ultima IV was even less linear in 1985.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Some people talk like linearity is something new :P



Or you can enjoy both! Why does 1 have to be better then the other one ._.