Xoj said: ugh  dialogue tree are useless, the story it's hurt alot for RPG i dont think giving player choice (and giving sex a reward) it's right thing to do, it damage the story, since it's so random, character never develop from what they went at the begining at much doign something "heroic" at the end but you simply don't care about the character. one game that have this and kinda failed it WKC, they add a user character but since the game it's story based, the character it's just there as add never do something important. WRPG will never have a "sephiroth" or a "Aeris".

Heh, fortunately WRPGs don't have "Sephiroth" or "Aeris". I guess you have never played Baldurs Gates for example. Player can choose which characters can be in party and those characters actually have own stories, own characteristics etc. They even like or do not like each other. They may even try to kill each other or npcs if they don't like them. If they have something to say, they usually say it and nag you about your choices, if they don't like them or even leave your party.

 

Why dialogue trees are useless? Story will not get 'hurt', it will just evolve according to your actions/choices. So... anything you do in game shouldn't affect on story/game anyhow, because the whole thing must be just one big movie that is exactly the same every time. Sounds a bit boring, if you ask me. Oh, and I see JRPG epicness as going around the sun and taking piece of sun to pierce your enemy with it for 10k hitpoints. If that is not ridiculous, what is. :D

 

I like to choose my own destiny. I guess you don't.

burgerstein said: epicurean said: I don't mind side quests if the objective is clear.  I just remember playing the newest Zelda on Wii and getting to the part where the guy kept pushing you off the cliff.  I spent an hour trying to figure how to get passed it (and that was the only way to continue).  Eventually I looked up the guide and you had to go two towns back and talk to the mayor and fight him...but there was no way whatsoever of knowing that.  So players are apparently just supposed to go talk to every single character in the game up until that point till they hit pay dirt.  I just don't see how that is fun. Just gott say. When you leave the area where the Goron knocks you down, the Native Americna looking guy stops you and tells you exactly what to do. Also, in pretty much every Zelda since OoT there's a character with you at all times who will tell you what to do if you get stuck. I understand how you could not know to talk to Midna, but the other guy tells you exactly what to do and there's no way to avoid talking to him. I don't see why you'd lie about that so it's very confusing. OT: People like to make choices, even if the choices are meaningless (hence dialogue trees with one result). Linear games limit the ability of the palyer to make choices. Genrally speaking ofcourse.

All I can say is I'm not lying.  Im not sure which character you're talking about (I haven't played it since it came out).  Perhaps I missed something, but at the time I was very frustrated, and I sure don't remember a character that I could talk to at any time that told me where to go.  And calling me a "liar" makes me wish there was an ignore button from here on out for you.

Edit: Perhaps you weren't calling me a liar...can't quite tell...

Xxain said: btw ppl, in a JRPG open world and linear world have slightly different meanings Open world= DQ8, FFXlll Linaer = Grandia, Xenogears

I assume you meant FF12 for an open world, and not 13? Anyways...

I've always loved games that let you wander around aimlessly, even if the story itself is fairly linear. Both the original Dragon Warrior (or Quest) and Final Fantasy can be described as such. Sure, the story is A > B > C > D > E. But I like finding K off to the side. I'm not afraid of this. Hell, get me lost! I enjoy it even more then! And this isn't limited to RPGs. Take the early Zelda games- finding everything you needed to do in them was a pain. (This is especially true in Zelda 1's second quest.) I can wander around, wondering where that next thing was hidden. Or Metroid. I remember playing that when I was young, getting lost in Norfair. But I loved it. I could keep wondering, have I been here? Is there another item through this door? And this is what I miss about today's games. I like exploring. Take me off these damned rails, let me get lost! But no, they keep making things more and more linear, solely for the sake of story. Now, I'm not saying a good story is bad. But when you can't let the player wander because you need to tell the story, it's time to make a movie instead.

Because people are turning into Nazi zombies.

I seriously dont know. If anything my favourite games have always been linear. I mean ok maybe Zelda games a few side quests that you'll enjoy, but thats the most i would like a game to have :P I absolutely hated fallout 3, but i'm a bit biased :P

Xoj said: WRPG will never have a "sephiroth" or a "Aeris".

WRPG is not my favorite genre, but you just made one of the strongest arguments in favor of why it should be.

 

In all seriousness, though, I don't see what Sephiroth has to do with a discussion on linear JRPGS.  Are you saying that because FFVII was relatively linear, it allowed them to make a character as awesome as Sephiroth?  For one thing, FFVII was not aggressively linear, for another, JRPGs brought us Kefka from FF6, a 10x better character than Sephiroth in a game that was far more open-world (second half at least).

twesterm said: disolitude said: I find linear games better than open world games. Linear games are more focused in providing the gamer with most amount of fun he can have at that moment. also liner games have less filler... Non linear games give the choice to the player to choose his missions. Players know jack shit. They go to the mission they think they will be most fun...but that is not always the case. Also, they are full of filler to make the games appear longer and to provide the illusion of freedom. For example... Ninja Gaiden 2 - challenge after challenge after challenge = fun time after fun time after fun time GTA4 - fun game broken appart by side missions some of which are tedious as fuck and some which are mildly amusing...10 hours of fun stretched in to a 30 hour game. It's funny, I've played through Mass Effect twice now and the time I played it more as a linear game I enjoyed it *much* more. First playthrough -- played the four worlds and did almost no sidequests Second playthrough -- played three of the words, did all the sidequests I could, and the finished Virmire. On the second playthrough when I played it as more of an open world game, I hated the game.  I was so sick of it by hour 13 or so and I still had another 10 left.  The pacing was utterly destroyed.  On my first playthrough I made the mistake of not playing Virmire last but I played the four worlds one after the other and the game rocked.

I don't think that has much to do with linearity, T. I think that has more to do with everything not centering around the main story in ME being complete and utter shit.

Oh, yeah! Let's go do a story mission which is fleshed out with great characters, amazing environments, and a tight battle system!

or

Oh, yeah! Let's go do a sidequest where I land on a barren planet, scream for 20 minutes as I try to get this nearly uncontrollable piece of shit Mako to go in the correct direction, and then bombard a small complex that looks the exact same as the complex I raided on (fill in system name here) half an hour ago!

It's because people can't handle the change in FF XIII.

Aion said: It's because people can't handle the change in FF XIII.

They can either accept it. or go play something else. It comes down to that. and based off of early impressions in the official thread. People are loving the game.

honestly theres nothing worst then being lost in a video game so either give me some waypoints or maps or quest logs or SOMETHING where i know what im doing OR linearity. and sometimes you just dont feel like thinking about where to go and you just wanna go down a "hallway" and hack/slash/shoot/mame some stuff