Poor Square Enix... getting blamed for Capcom's stuff... :(

ahh, yes that very old and much tired old chestnut, have you not even looked at this entire thread. bewcause you just had to jump in and not read or take a gander on what i HAD posted...

you posted this:

who the hell cares about SINGLE LAYER?

why are you talking of HD DVD?

why do I think the blue ray is expensive?

microsoft not using the full disc?

why is the "average speed" so interesting?

so?

well I am tired of repeating myself IF you want to know why just read through the past post, you come in here and you think I was slamming the xbox360 ..good show you just made your self look very foolish. I was in this thread trying to give my opinion on thing's , if you would have bothered to read this entire thread you would know what I was talking about. but you instead had to jump right to this point and try to make it seem as alway's about the PS3 v's the xbox360 which it was not even about that with what I posted. If anything the only negative thing that someone could see was how i thought By microsoft not putting in HD DVD drive from the get go and instead sticking with DVD cav optical drive's that there could be in the future with storage issue's.

so once again congrat's on skimming through past most of the post's

SE are now the industry scapegoats.

Didn't you get the memo?

its not just capcom i was pointing out that that it's not just capcom

ID software

Rockstar game's

capcom is just one more

and throughout this gen there have been other developer's stating this very same problem.

it seem's to many they are:

there was talk by many ps3 fans about how the PS3 was going to loose content , or reduced graphic's due to the xbox360 ever since the game went multi-platform

than after the xbox360 fans had their fill of gloating about how the PS3 lost yet another exclusive and how the game could be put on a single DVD9 that Blu-Ray was not needed.

and now that

truth be told is all through this generation both side's have been puilling this crap over and over when I doubt not a one of them has even been in the game development industry, but want to say..this or that about the other system like they seem to have all the fact's about how such and such development works based on some developer's opinion who may not even have near enough experience them selves to even be correct themselves about it. but yet you hear

well so and so developer stated this and it's almost alway's a multi-platform developer

but when you take the IDEA that 1st party show's what they can do with the hardware it become's very clear. it depends on the developer's experience with the hardware

just this new fiasco with SE being the latest:

Square Enix Discusses Middleware Benefits and Challenges

Developer looks back frankly on Last Remnant, discusses challenges of using middleware engines for their games.

By Kat Bailey, 02/17/2010

It's no secret that Square Enix's Last Remnant suffered major technical problems. It was the developer's first Xbox 360 game, and the first time they attempted to use the Unreal Engine. The results weren't always pretty, as Square Enix chief technology officer Julien Merceron readily admitted in an interview with Gamasutra.

"One of the traps with middleware is that some game teams believe that, because they got this middleware, maybe they need less programmers on their team, or maybe they don't need that many skilled programmers."

"And it's true -- how many talented physics programmers are there out there? I don't think that you could find three to four extremely talented physics programmers per team. For example, let's say you have like 30 game development teams; if you're looking to find two or three extremely talented physics programmers for each of your teams, that's going to be extremely difficult."

Merceron noted that one obstacle when it comes to utilizing middleware is that problems occasionally come up that no one is equipped to solve. However, he added that, "I think also it is important to highlight that there will be a time I think it won't be possible anymore to work without middleware because of time, talent, and cost reasons. So, as a conclusion, I think a balanced approach is needed."

Will more Square Enix games be utilizing middleware in the future? With the extraordinary time and expense that went into Final Fantasy XIII, it wouldn't be surprising to see them try some alternative approaches to development. We'll see what happens once its finally on the market on March 9.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178006

it seem's  to me many gamer's today just want to keep the nitpicking engine rolling on just to see if they can rile up the other side.

even SE understands there is problem's with every development when you have to learn new thing's I cannot fault them for that that's just how thing go if anything can go wrong it will.

but after this you hear an uproar on wow SE let the xbox360 down, and now some PS3 fan's fanning the flame's

when yet the game is not even out yet in the states.

in a lot of way's capcom is going out and stating that they needed more room on the disc. but you hear game fan's shout that's bull they just want to milk us for more money., without knowing for sure. I was not there and they were not there also , so there is noway for sure what kind of content had to be cut.

classic not looking before you leap.

if you ask any gamer it's alway's one game company EA, ROCKSTAR GAME'S, CAPCOM ,UBISOFT etc.are the scape goat's

it's just getting rather silly

DVD is definately nearing the end of its life cycle for games, but we need to be a little more realistic about what is going on here. The business model for this gen is DLC, it's that simple. It's about money and how companies can increase their revenue without doing any etxra work.

Some companies are more responsible than others when it comes to offering DLC (i.e. large amount of content that clearly is post development). Capcom is not one of these responsible companies and it's up to us reject this content and reject this game. Don't buy the DLC and don't buy the game, send them a message.

Yes i AGREE that as gamer's we need to speak with out $$ more, for all we know last planet 2 could indeed have more content that would have needed multiple disc's

we do not know for sure. people can look at past track record's an say..."this is just another money grab"

or look what happend with Killzone 2 many time's the developer's put out a target render and many did not think Killzone developer's would be able to get anyway near that quality. but many today that detracted that very same IDEA many have changed their mind. HELL the fan's had the XBOX360 song

"step one.."

you remember that one don't you they said

" instead you offer killzone 2 but killzone 1 sucked before so what made you think we wanted more sony you went wrong with your ps3 i'll just keep playing my 360 hope this song has helped you understand now you know how you killed your brand"

do you think today's perception of KILLZONE2 DEVELOPER'S CHANGED?

some have some did not change their mind. that's the point that was made before the game was even out.

joeorc said: Alby_da_Wolf said: In some wholikeswood's posts in this thread there is, besides being pissed off for Capcom's greed, maybe a very, very mild dig at MS too, why some people jump like crazy and get mad at him? Should people censor themselves whenever a news, or their personal thoughts, contain, directly or indirectly, even the slightest negativity against MS? Has MS been declared endangered species, perchance? Are MS execs so sensitive that if we aren't careful enough they could commit seppuku? I do not think that's It at  all, I think it may have to do with some fan's that may be blowing this way out of proportion both from the side with the xbox360 and from the side of the fan's of the PS3 . some blame SE some blame Microsoft and some blame each other for bringing up the short coming's of the other's side system in hope's on making the other side look bad. i am pretty much the middle because what the developer may have done with lost planet 2 may infact  need the extra disc, Now  I am not saying it's true or that I even think it is true. I just do not know for sure an until we see what that extra content is, I am not hoing to pass judgement on capcom about this, until further info get's out.

About this matter in general, the only, big, MS fault is to surcharge royalties on games on more than two discs, giving by the way easy excuses to greedy or lazy developers in borderline cases, but this time it's quite obvious the excuse is lame and the guilt is almost all on Capcom's greed (not lazyness, as they actually developed more material than they'll actually deliver). Nevertheless, without that surtax, there wouldn't be that easy excuse in any case, either those borderline and doubtful, or those in which the fault is clearly on one side, MS or developer, so a small dig at MS is justifiable, it started all this issue. That surtax doesn't solve disk swapping uncomfortableness, it simply replaces it with bigger faults.

i would cry too, having my work butchered to fit a dvd =( ;_;

I'm not sure I'm following you...but I think you are talking about how a developer can change their image or reputation?

Can you explain what you are talking about with Killzone and how it relates to this particular issue of DLC being used as a new revenue stream wihtout doing any additional work?