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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Reasons for why Microsoft has timed exclusives (NO TROlLS OR HATERS HERE)

r505Matt said:
ameratsu said:
Hisiru said:

My arguments:

nd-color: #ff0000;">1) Microsoft is trying to build recognition and userbase. Sony and Nintendo are 2 strong and experienced companies, Microsoft really needs to build an userbase. 


2) Some people will buy a x360 because it has timed exclusives. There are some people who won't wait 9 months to play a game. (you like it or not, 5~10 months is too much for some people), so it's just business. 


3) Timed exclusives like Episodes from Liberty City will make people look at Microsoft thinking "woow, GTA was a playstation franchise and now Microsoft has the game first, they really have more significance in this market now, they are growing.". Who is really trying to look at this situation using the logical side will realize that Microsoft is doing a good job and has more significance in this industry than ever before (that's why I think that timed exclusives are important). 

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4) In the end of the day, this is just business. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are no different, they aren't here to make you feel happy, they are here to make money. Don't be fooled, Sony and Nintendo aren't your best friends, they want money. 

5) You don't like timed exclusives, right? I could say that I hate when Sony buys a company (or finances the development of a game just for the exclusivity) because this company could make multiplatform games, so everyone would be able to enjoy the games. I could say that I hate when Nintendo focuses too much on the casual market (actually, I don't care, I like Wii Sports, but I am just giving you an example).  

Am I wrong? Do you have a different opinion? Discuss! (but please, no trolls or haters here)

1) There is nothing wrong with building recognition and a userbase. Putting a "Only on Xbox" logo on the box of a game that is exclusive for a brief period of time is misleading and dishonest. Their aim in buying up exclusives for a certain period is a sort of temporary differentiation. Nintendo and Sony spend money funding their own IPs and first party studios to produce games that will never leave their platforms. Microsoft does this as well, but in buying temporary exclusivity their aim is not to create compelling exclusive content, but the illusion that they are the only place to play that content.

2) Saying it's "just business" is such a copout. Microsoft doesn't do this to benefit their existing customers, but rather to deprive others of it or create artificial differentiation between them and the competition. Someone who already owns an x360 gains no benefit from a game not appearing on ps3, pc or wii. Like I said above, instead of funding or otherwise ensuring games that will never leave the platform, they want those without a system to think timed exclusive games are actual exclusive games. Microsoft is deliberately decieving those looking to buy a console and who want to HONESTLY compare what is available / what will be available for the console. It's absolutely an anti-consumer tactic.

3) I won't argue that Microsoft has more significance in the industry than before, but how you tie this point to timed exclusives is haphazard at best. Please clarify.

4) Of course businesses are here to make money. While their motive is profit, I would say Sony is doing a better job of securing actual exclusive content and listening to their customers. Microsoft entered this generation a year early in an attempt to beat competitors to the punch, cutting corners in hardware design in the process. That was a "business" decision but it doesn't mean that those who experience RROD or who are wary of unreliable hardware have to put up with it because Microsoft is out to make money. Same goes for Sony cutting ps2 playback in the ps3.

5) When Sony (or whoever) buys a company, they are actually funding and taking a risk in creating new games and content. While Microsoft did (I think) fund the GTA DLC, the focus with buying companies or funding new games is to produce original content that differentiates one system from another. Microsoft tries to sidestep this with timed exclusives. Of course to the casual observer this sort of thing is fair game, and it works. Someone who wants to buy a system compares what is available for each system, and buys the console with the most features/games/whatever they're looking for. Since at any given time Microsoft has a number of games that appear to be exclusive, there is a benefit they get from it. Doesn't mean I have to like it or defend their actions.

edit: I think I fixed the formatting now.

1. So what if MS wants to build themselves as a gaming platform instead of a developer? Is there really something wrong with that? I think it's better that way, keep things seperate. All of those Sony companies can only make for Sony's platform. This is a little extreme, but what if everything were 1st party? Would that be a better situation to you?

2. Why is that a copout? They're all businesses. At the end of the day they have to be profitable, whatever they do to do it, that's all that matters to them. Otherwise, the company (or at least a division of that company) will cease to be. They don't compete over how many customers they have, or who is the 'nicer' business to deal with. It's all about the money.

3. I think the OP's idea is interesting; I don't think it's that 'haphazard'.

4. And rushing development was a mistake. They know that, they have acknowledged that. How long until you forget about that? 10 years? 50? They've fixed RRoD in their newer consoles, and they extended their warranty to cover for their past consoles. I think that's as much as any company should do.

5. Why should a platform developer take that kind of risk? Is that some kind of strange requirement in your head for a good gaming platform company? There are already SOOOO many games out there, too many to fully play all of them, and you want MORE made? Not to mention, I'm not a big fan of Sony's first party. Uncharted 1 and 2 are essentially just 2 $60 movies with mediocre gunplay, and good platforming, if a bit simple/easy. How long has GT5 been in the making? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MS any more than I like Sony (they're equal in my book), but I think MS has a stronger/better business plan.

no one who have played u2 would say something like that.

since when being polished game hurt? GT5 looking like no other game racing game ever.



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Xoj said:
r505Matt said:

1. So what if MS wants to build themselves as a gaming platform instead of a developer? Is there really something wrong with that? I think it's better that way, keep things seperate. All of those Sony companies can only make for Sony's platform. This is a little extreme, but what if everything were 1st party? Would that be a better situation to you?

2. Why is that a copout? They're all businesses. At the end of the day they have to be profitable, whatever they do to do it, that's all that matters to them. Otherwise, the company (or at least a division of that company) will cease to be. They don't compete over how many customers they have, or who is the 'nicer' business to deal with. It's all about the money.

3. I think the OP's idea is interesting; I don't think it's that 'haphazard'.

4. And rushing development was a mistake. They know that, they have acknowledged that. How long until you forget about that? 10 years? 50? They've fixed RRoD in their newer consoles, and they extended their warranty to cover for their past consoles. I think that's as much as any company should do.

5. Why should a platform developer take that kind of risk? Is that some kind of strange requirement in your head for a good gaming platform company? There are already SOOOO many games out there, too many to fully play all of them, and you want MORE made? Not to mention, I'm not a big fan of Sony's first party. Uncharted 1 and 2 are essentially just 2 $60 movies with mediocre gunplay, and good platforming, if a bit simple/easy. How long has GT5 been in the making? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MS any more than I like Sony (they're equal in my book), but I think MS has a stronger/better business plan.

no one who have played u2 would say something like that.

since when being polished game hurt? GT5 looking like no other game racing game ever.

Which part about U2? The gunplay feels off compared to other TPS (ME2, Gears 2). I like the platforming/climbing, but it's almost as easy as AC, you just need slightly better eyes. And it's a very cinematic game, plenty of people have said it's too much of a movie, and not enough of a game to them.

Personally, I like U2, I don't think it's as good as all the big fans make it out to be though. Then again, I haven't finished it yet (only get to play it twice a month at my cousin's place). We'll be finishing it tonight actually.

Nothing wrong with polishing, and I'm sure it will look good. But I don't want to wait 5+ years for the next iteration in a good franchise.

Also, there are FAR more important things than graphics.



r505Matt said:
Xoj said:
r505Matt said:
 

1. So what if MS wants to build themselves as a gaming platform instead of a developer? Is there really something wrong with that? I think it's better that way, keep things seperate. All of those Sony companies can only make for Sony's platform. This is a little extreme, but what if everything were 1st party? Would that be a better situation to you?

2. Why is that a copout? They're all businesses. At the end of the day they have to be profitable, whatever they do to do it, that's all that matters to them. Otherwise, the company (or at least a division of that company) will cease to be. They don't compete over how many customers they have, or who is the 'nicer' business to deal with. It's all about the money.

3. I think the OP's idea is interesting; I don't think it's that 'haphazard'.

4. And rushing development was a mistake. They know that, they have acknowledged that. How long until you forget about that? 10 years? 50? They've fixed RRoD in their newer consoles, and they extended their warranty to cover for their past consoles. I think that's as much as any company should do.

5. Why should a platform developer take that kind of risk? Is that some kind of strange requirement in your head for a good gaming platform company? There are already SOOOO many games out there, too many to fully play all of them, and you want MORE made? Not to mention, I'm not a big fan of Sony's first party. Uncharted 1 and 2 are essentially just 2 $60 movies with mediocre gunplay, and good platforming, if a bit simple/easy. How long has GT5 been in the making? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MS any more than I like Sony (they're equal in my book), but I think MS has a stronger/better business plan.

no one who have played u2 would say something like that.

since when being polished game hurt? GT5 looking like no other game racing game ever.

Which part about U2? The gunplay feels off compared to other TPS (ME2, Gears 2). I like the platforming/climbing, but it's almost as easy as AC, you just need slightly better eyes. And it's a very cinematic game, plenty of people have said it's too much of a movie, and not enough of a game to them.

Personally, I like U2, I don't think it's as good as all the big fans make it out to be though. Then again, I haven't finished it yet (only get to play it twice a month at my cousin's place). We'll be finishing it tonight actually.

Nothing wrong with polishing, and I'm sure it will look good. But I don't want to wait 5+ years for the next iteration in a good franchise.

Also, there are FAR more important things than graphics.

it does all those at the same time, with fluid animations, TPS, cover system platforming , hand to hand fighting, and run & gun the game even retains that on multiplayer and it excels at each point. many things other developers have problems for years, they did it all in one game.

there isn't anything off about gunplay, its a TPS

and GT5 isn't taking 4 years because of graphics alone, the game have now weather, damage, day/night cycles nascar, wrc,900 cars+ and more.

til now GT5P still is the only games that does 1080p 60fps x2 and 720p x4 msAA



Xoj said:
r505Matt said:
Xoj said:
r505Matt said:
 

1. So what if MS wants to build themselves as a gaming platform instead of a developer? Is there really something wrong with that? I think it's better that way, keep things seperate. All of those Sony companies can only make for Sony's platform. This is a little extreme, but what if everything were 1st party? Would that be a better situation to you?

2. Why is that a copout? They're all businesses. At the end of the day they have to be profitable, whatever they do to do it, that's all that matters to them. Otherwise, the company (or at least a division of that company) will cease to be. They don't compete over how many customers they have, or who is the 'nicer' business to deal with. It's all about the money.

3. I think the OP's idea is interesting; I don't think it's that 'haphazard'.

4. And rushing development was a mistake. They know that, they have acknowledged that. How long until you forget about that? 10 years? 50? They've fixed RRoD in their newer consoles, and they extended their warranty to cover for their past consoles. I think that's as much as any company should do.

5. Why should a platform developer take that kind of risk? Is that some kind of strange requirement in your head for a good gaming platform company? There are already SOOOO many games out there, too many to fully play all of them, and you want MORE made? Not to mention, I'm not a big fan of Sony's first party. Uncharted 1 and 2 are essentially just 2 $60 movies with mediocre gunplay, and good platforming, if a bit simple/easy. How long has GT5 been in the making? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like MS any more than I like Sony (they're equal in my book), but I think MS has a stronger/better business plan.

no one who have played u2 would say something like that.

since when being polished game hurt? GT5 looking like no other game racing game ever.

Which part about U2? The gunplay feels off compared to other TPS (ME2, Gears 2). I like the platforming/climbing, but it's almost as easy as AC, you just need slightly better eyes. And it's a very cinematic game, plenty of people have said it's too much of a movie, and not enough of a game to them.

Personally, I like U2, I don't think it's as good as all the big fans make it out to be though. Then again, I haven't finished it yet (only get to play it twice a month at my cousin's place). We'll be finishing it tonight actually.

Nothing wrong with polishing, and I'm sure it will look good. But I don't want to wait 5+ years for the next iteration in a good franchise.

Also, there are FAR more important things than graphics.

it does all those at the same time, with fluid animations, TPS, cover system platforming , hand to hand fighting, and run & gun the game even retains that on multiplayer and it excels at each point. many things other developers have problems for years, they did it all in one game.

there isn't anything off about gunplay, its a TPS

and GT5 isn't taking 4 years because of graphics alone, the game have now weather, damage, day/night cycles nascar, wrc,900 cars+ and more.

til now GT5P still is the only games that does 1080p 60fps x2 and 720p x4 msAA

This is getting off topic:

To both U2 and your GT5 comments, that's still a lot of graphics/visual stuff, the least important part of a game to me. Yeah, I know GT5 has a lot of cars, that's cool I guess.

That's cool about the 1080p 60fps etc. etc. Still Visuals. Visuals are not the most important part of a game. The Wii's domination of the gaming market proves that.

For U2, in terms of a TPS, it's weaker than Gears or ME2 (much much better than ME1 though). The cover system feels very very clunky to me, but there's something else that feels 'off' in U2's gunplay. Not sure what it is though, I'll try to keep it in mind for later tonight when I play it again.

As a game, I think U2 isn't anything special. As a gaming experience, it does pretty well. But it's so similar to the first game, only more over-the-top.

Anyways, this is totally off topic, so if you want to talk more about it, feel free to message me.



BMaker11 said:
My thoughts: Microsoft has to settle for timed exclusivity because 3rd parties want to put their games on the Sony platform, but Microsoft has no real 1st party to really support them otherwise. So they have to give out the $$$ to make it seem like the 360 is that much better than the PS3. It's a rouse, I tell ya

Yeah! Just like LA Nore!

 

oh wait....



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GamerOhaLAA said:
I was talking to a buddy of mine about this issue earlier. I think that Microsoft should build first party developement to make REAL exclusive games than having timed exclusives. It is a good strategy to have timed exclusives, but it sucks when you hear that a game that was so called exclusive to your fave console goes to the rival one. I hate that about MS. They say Netflix, GTA Episodes, Bioshock, lost planet and so on are for Xbox ONLY and then a year later, they shrug their shoulders. They should just say its timed from the start.

I agree wholeheartedly. Timed exclusives only get you a temporary win. We are all fans of great games so if you can't keep those great games there's no reason to stay with your console.



Love the product, not the company. They love your money, not you.

-TheRealMafoo

M$ would do better to invest in some companies like Sony did with GG, Zipper, insomniac etc. That way, if M$ aren't in a favourable position in future generatons, The companies wont abandon them.



Goddbless said:
GamerOhaLAA said:
I was talking to a buddy of mine about this issue earlier. I think that Microsoft should build first party developement to make REAL exclusive games than having timed exclusives. It is a good strategy to have timed exclusives, but it sucks when you hear that a game that was so called exclusive to your fave console goes to the rival one. I hate that about MS. They say Netflix, GTA Episodes, Bioshock, lost planet and so on are for Xbox ONLY and then a year later, they shrug their shoulders. They should just say its timed from the start.

I agree wholeheartedly. Timed exclusives only get you a temporary win. We are all fans of great games so if you can't keep those great games there's no reason to stay with your console.

I disagree. It's a different business tactic, and it's working well for them. If you're truly a fan of great games, and there's a game you really want, you'll buy the console that gets the game first, you won't wait a year for it to come out on a different console. Especially if there's no guarantee that the game will be released on another console or not.

If you don't care so much for the game, then it wouldn't convince you to buy any system anyways, so it wouldn't matter, even if you end up getting it.

I think the way they're doing it is lower-risk, so it's better business. But that could be proven wrong at any time, so who knows?



I also think its a waist of money, all that money spend could go tords new better IPs, if you look at the sales of GTA for 360 with all the timmed data, sales wise and look at the PS3 version without , there really is not a big enough difference is sales to justify the timmed exclusive content, MS probably spent more in this case then they made back.



Given how poorly games that are delayed by 12 months sell, there must not be much difference between a timed exclusive and an exclusive deal. I am really curious as to the dollar amounts being offered for such deals.

If I was an XBox owner, I would feel cheated if a game I thought was exclusive ended up not being exclusive, and it ended up being more polished on a rival console. As a consumer I would prefer to know if it was a timed exclusive or not, but this would definitely minimize the impact of the exclusivity deal. The only exception to this that I can think of would be GTA on PS2/XBox, where I think everyone knew that it would come to the XBox, but most people got it for the PS2 anwyay.

I think it is a dirty business tactic, but all evidence points to it being a very successful one. Like most people pointed out, it is a lot less risky to invest in a timed exclusive deal on a known franchise than it is to invest in a new IP. And if they don't get a timed exclusive on a game, the tactic shifts to get DLC exclusives. If I didn't already own a console, deals like this could definitely sway me to buy an XBox instead of a PS3.

The only good thing is, seeing that I already made my choice long ago to get a PS3, and since I have no intentions of getting an XBox, I can still play some of these games when they do eventually get ported.