Forums - Politics Discussion - Canada Votes 2019

So while I was right about Scheer being more popular overall, not by a lot though, it didn't turn out like I thought it would. I was focusing too much on the conservative Provincial wave that Canada and many other countries have seen recently, and not the candidates and their specific platforms this time around. While my county voted overwhelmingly conservative, I actually didn't end up voting. While I really dislike Trudeau as a whole, I don't like Scheer either as a person. He comes off as fake and a little stuck up, which I also get from Trudeau. Scheer's messaging certainly wasn't great either. As for Bernier, he's somewhat likable but still comes off as weak in general, and I didn't agree with some of his platform. So it's not all that surprising in the end that Scheer couldn't pull it off.

At least the libs are stuck with a minority, and with the way Singh talks and went after Trudeau, he and his party would look quite hypocritical to cozy up now. It's politics though so being hypocritical won't matter much if Singh thinks backing Trudeau will help him. Typically this situation leads to a lot of bickering and little getting accomplished, which with Trudeau still in power, I'm fine with.

I also find it hilarious that Scheer won the popular vote, yet it's extremely quiet in terms of how he should have won and how Trudeau must be an illegitimate P.M.   lol

That's Canada vs America for you though.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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EricHiggin said:

So while I was right about Scheer being more popular overall, not by a lot though, it didn't turn out like I thought it would. I was focusing too much on the conservative Provincial wave that Canada and many other countries have seen recently, and not the candidates and their specific platforms this time around. While my county voted overwhelmingly conservative, I actually didn't end up voting. While I really dislike Trudeau as a whole, I don't like Scheer either as a person. He comes off as fake and a little stuck up, which I also get from Trudeau. Scheer's messaging certainly wasn't great either. As for Bernier, he's somewhat likable but still comes off as weak in general, and I didn't agree with some of his platform. So it's not all that surprising in the end that Scheer couldn't pull it off.

At least the libs are stuck with a minority, and with the way Singh talks and went after Trudeau, he and his party would look quite hypocritical to cozy up now. It's politics though so being hypocritical won't matter much if Singh thinks backing Trudeau will help him. Typically this situation leads to a lot of bickering and little getting accomplished, which with Trudeau still in power, I'm fine with.

I also find it hilarious that Scheer won the popular vote, yet it's extremely quiet in terms of how he should have won and how Trudeau must be an illegitimate P.M.   lol

That's Canada vs America for you though.

I'll break the silence. This old fashioned riding system has no place in modern times.

Quite a difference when every vote has the same weight. Based on actual percentages:
Since the bigger parties benefit from the riding system, it won't change.

LIB 157 vs 112
CON 121 vs 116
BQ 32 vs 26
NDP 24 vs 54
GRN 3 vs 22
OTH 1 vs 3
PPC 0 vs 5


SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

So while I was right about Scheer being more popular overall, not by a lot though, it didn't turn out like I thought it would. I was focusing too much on the conservative Provincial wave that Canada and many other countries have seen recently, and not the candidates and their specific platforms this time around. While my county voted overwhelmingly conservative, I actually didn't end up voting. While I really dislike Trudeau as a whole, I don't like Scheer either as a person. He comes off as fake and a little stuck up, which I also get from Trudeau. Scheer's messaging certainly wasn't great either. As for Bernier, he's somewhat likable but still comes off as weak in general, and I didn't agree with some of his platform. So it's not all that surprising in the end that Scheer couldn't pull it off.

At least the libs are stuck with a minority, and with the way Singh talks and went after Trudeau, he and his party would look quite hypocritical to cozy up now. It's politics though so being hypocritical won't matter much if Singh thinks backing Trudeau will help him. Typically this situation leads to a lot of bickering and little getting accomplished, which with Trudeau still in power, I'm fine with.

I also find it hilarious that Scheer won the popular vote, yet it's extremely quiet in terms of how he should have won and how Trudeau must be an illegitimate P.M.   lol

That's Canada vs America for you though.

I'll break the silence. This old fashioned riding system has no place in modern times.

Quite a difference when every vote has the same weight. Based on actual percentages:
Since the bigger parties benefit from the riding system, it won't change.

LIB 157 vs 112
CON 121 vs 116
BQ 32 vs 26
NDP 24 vs 54
GRN 3 vs 22
OTH 1 vs 3
PPC 0 vs 5

I hate not being able to choose the P.M. separately. My riding would rather vote liberal as they tend to be better for farmers more often than not, but we clearly wanted Trudeau out, so were forced to vote for the next best thing which looked to be conservative. 

I don't think just a pop vote works though. It may work now still, but the rural areas don't grow yet the cities do, and the cities tend to favor liberal, so a pop vote by itself could be a problem eventually as well.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

EricHiggin said:
SvennoJ said:

I'll break the silence. This old fashioned riding system has no place in modern times.

Quite a difference when every vote has the same weight. Based on actual percentages:
Since the bigger parties benefit from the riding system, it won't change.

LIB 157 vs 112
CON 121 vs 116
BQ 32 vs 26
NDP 24 vs 54
GRN 3 vs 22
OTH 1 vs 3
PPC 0 vs 5

I hate not being able to choose the P.M. separately. My riding would rather vote liberal as they tend to be better for farmers more often than not, but we clearly wanted Trudeau out, so were forced to vote for the next best thing which looked to be conservative. 

I don't think just a pop vote works though. It may work now still, but the rural areas don't grow yet the cities do, and the cities tend to favor liberal, so a pop vote by itself could be a problem eventually as well.

That's democracy though.... This election my vote didn't count at all with the winner takes all system. Which also influences people to vote for one of the big parties instead of one of the smaller ones they feel more aligned with.

It's customary that the PM comes from the biggest party, not much you can do about that. It would be weird to have a PM from a minority party. I originally come from the Netherlands which works with a popular vote system while also voting for the PM sort off. You vote for the candidate in the party you want to see as leader of that faction. The biggest party's faction leader becomes PM.
The disadvantage is that it makes it much easier for a populist party to take ground. Dutch politics are a mess as well.



SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

I hate not being able to choose the P.M. separately. My riding would rather vote liberal as they tend to be better for farmers more often than not, but we clearly wanted Trudeau out, so were forced to vote for the next best thing which looked to be conservative. 

I don't think just a pop vote works though. It may work now still, but the rural areas don't grow yet the cities do, and the cities tend to favor liberal, so a pop vote by itself could be a problem eventually as well.

That's democracy though.... This election my vote didn't count at all with the winner takes all system. Which also influences people to vote for one of the big parties instead of one of the smaller ones they feel more aligned with.

It's customary that the PM comes from the biggest party, not much you can do about that. It would be weird to have a PM from a minority party. I originally come from the Netherlands which works with a popular vote system while also voting for the PM sort off. You vote for the candidate in the party you want to see as leader of that faction. The biggest party's faction leader becomes PM.
The disadvantage is that it makes it much easier for a populist party to take ground. Dutch politics are a mess as well.

That's a potential problem with a popular vote as well though. When the urban area's grow enough to become overwhelmingly influential, as long as the liberals don't do anything too stupid, they could remain in power indefinitely, and that's no longer a democracy. Either separate area's need to have enough power to govern themselves for the most part, or checks and balances need to be part of the voting system. One way or another, it's not perfect or completely fair and some people aren't going to be happy about it.

It would be weird, but it would also make the parties change how they choose who's going to lead them. If you want to have your candidate be P.M. they better be the right person for the right reasons. If you look at how Scheer acted in the debate, it's like he figured he had it in the bag already. His reply to May flat out saying he won't be P.M. was terrible. Something along the lines of 'oh ya, we'll see about that'! Like they were kids bickering in the playground. Trudeau was being a prick in that debate but at least seemed somewhat like more of an adult.

The Dutch system seems odd, because if you like the party's platform, but don't like any of the candidates to choose from for their party, then you're in the same boat really. You get a leader you don't like but a platform you do, or you choose a leader you like, but deal with whatever their platform is.

I seriously don't think the conservatives lost due to their platform for the most part. They lost because of Scheer. Beating Trudeau should not have been that tough this election. I really wanted to vote just to keep Trudeau out, but I couldn't because Scheer just sucks as well. If they would've ran someone like O'leary I would've voted for him no question. The platform could even have been somewhat weaker and I would've voted for him. It's part of the reason Ford got elected. While Wynne had screwed up big time, Ford was clearly nothing like her so it made sense to vote for him. Scheer is too much like Trudeau, and if conservatives don't like Trudeau, then why did you run a guy comparable to Trudeau?



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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I'm proud that I didn't vote because I think democracy is extremely overrated!

Aligning oneself with political factions is exclusively reserved for the many phony hypocrites out there ...  

I'm still not too happy about the result since it means that the Liberals will in all likelihood form a coalition with the NDP. Personally, I would've preferred it if there was no majority AND no coalition either since I'm more interested in seeing parliament burn in hell with the rest of the world ... 

Where's the "scorched earth" party or the "I don't care" party when I need one ?  

Last edited by fatslob-:O - on 23 October 2019

If anyone from outside of Canada isn't understanding all this, the bottom line is that the Conservatives won the most votes in Monday's election, but the Liberals held on to the most seats in total, which means that Canada's current prime minister and Liberal Party leader Justin Trudeau will now head up a minority government. This is very much the sort of outcome I expected. In the practical, it realistically means that he'll have to make more concessions to the left on economic and environmental policies to accommodate the New Democrats on whose support he will now depend and maybe think about backing off his contempt for Quebec's internal cultural policies a little going forward, as that didn't work out too well. I think that's a pretty good outcome.

The Conservatives improved from 31.9% of the popular vote in 2015 to 34.4% this time around, though it's hardly a rebound back the heights of the Stephen Harper era. The most significant thing about this outcome for the Conservatives is that it suggests party leader Andrew Scheer's strategy of fending off a challenge from the new, far-right People's Party that appears to take inspiration from the anti-immigrant politics of Donald Trump was wholly successful, as the 2.5% or so of the vote that polls projected the People's Party would get instead all went home to the Conservatives on election day, propelling the party to a win in the popular vote at least. The People's Party didn't win a single seat anywhere. It would seem there isn't much demand for political xenophobia in Canada after all. One might say that the People's Party suffered from a lack of, well, people.

The other big news out of this election is that the Bloc is officially back! The Quebec sovereigntist party surged back to the second place in the province/nation, obtaining 32.5% of Quebec's votes, up from 19.3% in the last federal election. New leadership and the popularity of the local Premier François Legault's Coalition Avenir Québec government appears to have made the difference. The party, which fields candidates only in Quebec for ideological reasons, gained 22 seats, mostly at the expense of the New Democrats, who were reduced from 14 seats in Quebec to just one. It would appear that Quebecers weren't impressed with the fact that the NDP chose a turban-wearing party leader seemingly as a direct insult to their internally popular Bill 21, which bans public employees from wearing religious symbols on the job. It turns out that going out of your way to offend a particular region of the country can cost you a lot of seats there. In fact, Quebec by itself accounted for the majority of the NDP's embarrassing losses in Monday's vote. I'm just pointing that out as yet another sign to progressives worldwide that they're considerably overestimating the popularity of their cultural ideas.

Anyway, the Bloc Quebecois also gained five seats that had been held by the Liberals owing to their particularly aggressive stance against Bill 21, and two additional seats that had been held by the Conservatives owing both to the unpopularity of Andrew Scheer's pledge to open up an unwanted "energy corridor" through Quebec and to his past statements opposing abortion, which is completely legal in Canada and something almost no Quebecers want to see any new laws restricting in any way. The message is: back off! Overall, the Liberals will now hold 35 seats in Quebec to the Bloc's 32, the Conservative Party's 10, and the NDP's, um, one.

The Green Party also nearly doubled their share of the popular vote from 3.45% in 2015's federal election to 6.5% this time around. In 2015, they won one seat. This time around, they carried three, two of which were located in British Columbia.

Strikingly, this election also saw an independent candidate win a seat: Jody Wilson-Raybould, who you may remember was ousted from Justin Trudeau's cabinet, and from the Liberal Party, for calling out corruption therein, held onto her seat despite facing a major and high-profile challenge from her former party. It would appear that Canadians do, in fact, take corruption seriously, as in more seriously than the governing Liberal Party does.

Overall, this was the worst election performance for the New Democrats in 15 years. They lost 20 seats overall, including 13 in Quebec alone, as mentioned above. They even lost seats in their stronghold of British Columbia. Overall, the NDP acquired 15.9% of the vote this time around, down from 19.7% in the 2015 election and over 30% in 2011's vote, the difference in this election being mostly accounted for by the party's progressive wing emerging victorious in the party's internal leadership contest and going out of their way to alienate voters in Quebec. So much for the orange wave predictions. The NDP's economic policies might have a real base of support, but a lot of their cultural ideas do not is the lesson here.

So those were my takeaways.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 23 October 2019

@Jaicee Aren't the Bloc Quebecois anglophobes that want nothing to do with english Canada so how do you conclude the idea that there's "no demand" for political xenophobia ? Quebec is like Scotland from Britain ...

I couldn't care less if Canada broke apart either way with Quebec or western Canada becoming independent ...



lol eat sh*t xenophobes, Nazi cock suckers.



SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

I hate not being able to choose the P.M. separately. My riding would rather vote liberal as they tend to be better for farmers more often than not, but we clearly wanted Trudeau out, so were forced to vote for the next best thing which looked to be conservative. 

I don't think just a pop vote works though. It may work now still, but the rural areas don't grow yet the cities do, and the cities tend to favor liberal, so a pop vote by itself could be a problem eventually as well.

That's democracy though.... This election my vote didn't count at all with the winner takes all system. Which also influences people to vote for one of the big parties instead of one of the smaller ones they feel more aligned with.

It's customary that the PM comes from the biggest party, not much you can do about that. It would be weird to have a PM from a minority party. I originally come from the Netherlands which works with a popular vote system while also voting for the PM sort off. You vote for the candidate in the party you want to see as leader of that faction. The biggest party's faction leader becomes PM.
The disadvantage is that it makes it much easier for a populist party to take ground. Dutch politics are a mess as well.

Haven't thought to in depth about this yet, but Federally, what about if the Provinces (and Territories) had a popular vote, and whoever wins the Province, automatically holds power in all of it's ridings. Each Province also has an equal amount of seats (26?) towards Parliament. The ridings get redrawn in each Province so they match the number of total seats in the fairest way possible. Either that, or have final larger ridings (26) that make up the many smaller ridings we have now (not sure the best way to decide who get's the final seat in Parliament though). The party with the most Provinces won, forms Gov, whether it's minority or majority.

While this would mean that in Provinces like ON and QC, each voters choice wouldn't be as equal as someone from say AB or SK, it would mean each Province in the Country would have a more equal say in what happens when it comes to choosing the Federal Gov specifically. Since we have separate Provincial elections, which should be able to remain as is I think, I don't see why a partial popular vote wouldn't work Federally.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.