The recent news of Dragon Age 3 being on its way has excited me. I have become quite the fan of the series after almost dismissing the first for its very poor console appearance. The news also got me thinking about Bioware's "other" choice driven RPG, Mass Effect.

I adored Mass Effect one. It had a great story filled with Scifi jargon that I just eat up. I loved the world they had created for gamers to play in. The characters were very intriguing and well placed as well. Yet the games have a fundamental flaw that simply......lessens the Mass Effect series "affect". That problem is that by the end of the series....many of your choices didn't even matter(or maybe they just don't hold the actual emotional weight they should of by the climax)!

• What the hell happened to your entire party from the Second game? They all mysteriously go their own way....after wanting to stand by shephard till their death. Miranda was the most blatently silly one. Ok so she is afraid of her father and what he will do if he was to find her.....but she ops to not stick with the one guy that would be the only man in the universe that could keep her safe? Stupid as hell. Mordin, my fav character just goes suicidal all of a sudden. Jake goes to be a half ass bodyguard. It was so dissappointing to come back to the series and know none of my favorites from the second game would even be returning. They seemingly only felt the need to make characters from the first make a grand return.
• Not that many saw it, but the Gay love story with Kaiden was a joke. Borderline offensive but not for what you might think. The developers did not create any sort of real tension build up that they at least attempted to do with the other characters. We know Kaiden was strictly hetero in the first(sort of, I pegged him the moment I saw him. Gaydar extends to video games too). Yet, in the 3rd he is a lot more liberated sexually and just goes with the flow. But how awful is it, that in that last determining convo where you agree to e in a relationship with him, Kaiden basically tells you that you will be a relationship out of convenience. He says in the state of the world they are in, its best that everyone just pair up so they have some level of companionship and don't get lonely. At least thats what it felt like he said. What a cop out.
• Elusive Man or Anderson Like choosing if you want to go to hell or heaven.
• The half assed party cutscene sequences in the 3rd game, shameful. There was just a halt of character development for all characters in that game where they grew on a regular bases in the previous ones.

I will not even get into the fact that with each iteration the Mass Effect series seemed to become less and less of an Action RPG and more of just a story based action game(yet that was an agonizing problem as well). I will stick to the fatal flaw of having so many plot points come to a screaching dead end, and then covered up with shotty "excuses" for them. Specifically, these problems only become apparent after ME2 and ME3. It just felt as if Bioware realized they over reached somewhere inbetween and just started to salvage what they could and cut everything else short.

This, surprisingly to me, is where Dragon Age has succeeded. It may not have the level of depth in it's own lore that ME does, but it does a fine good job that within it's world your decisions matter....a lot! For example, In DA1 when going to the underground city of the dwarfs, you seem to be stuck in the middle of a political race by two very different candidates. One will lead them to progress, but ultimately corrupt them entirely with his unethical practices. The other is a hardoned traditionalist who will only continue to perpetuate the caste system upon his people, but he is a trustworty and passive leader. You ultimately are holding the future of these people in your hands. This just fealt so real to me. THIS just felt how decision making should be. I also love the intricate dialogue system of DA2 where each character reacted to others, always holding the same ideal and defending it as well. If you disagree with a particular character on an issue they strongly believe in they actually might leave you.Romances in this game are slow, intracate, and show how people don't just say "Hey lets be boyfriend and girlfriend" and BAM! It is a slow process.

Now in ME's defense, it is not completely without very similar choice situations. In actuality, DA's whole system is based heavily on ME's. Yet there is just something about the way DA goes about it that I appreciated leagues more. Maybe it is the fact DA doesn't judge me with every decision like im good or bad (poorly disguised as Renagade or Paragon). Each decision is just an honest to god decision you might hold and you are not necessarily a villain for doing so. I like the idea of ditching the individual "Karma" system and just going for how other characters interpret your actions. There was one decision in ME series that hit me hard, and that is the Quarian/Geth conflict. THAT was about the only tough decision in the game for me. Personally, I refused to kill a new "species" of life, simply because they were artificial. They had taken on a consious, which the Quarian's sort of brought it upon themselves when they tried to destroy them once figuring that out. This conflicted heavily with the strong attachment I formed for Tali and her deep lover for her people. This is the only time I felt this way in the 3rd game. Everything else had seemingly lost focus or cause and was hurridly tied up at the ends to close it off.

I mean honestly, choosing between Anderson or Elusive Man? A no brainer and not in the slightest bit challenging to my emotions. And to think that was a key plot point. I think the ME series made the same fatal mistake many others like it also do (Fable,Infamous series for example) and that is type casting my decisions as good or evil. Where is the gray? That is where the real challenge lies. It really didn't help that ME ended on such a anti-climactic note. Not one of the endings even sounded appealing as an actual outcome, I simply chose the least horrible idea.

Dragon Age II's execution of the final stages were gripping to me. Strange when realizing that it is not a "Save the world" plot in the traditional sense, more in a "save the mind of the future". I adore the parity the Mages/Tempar conflict is to early American/European problems and also appreciate their own twists in the matter as well. All the little decisions you made with party members and NPCs comes to a culminating point where they all must choose a side. Every character reacts differently depending on how you treated them and their beliefs throughout the game. Amazing execution in my book and it is something Bioware should take into consideration with their next RPG.

I always felt games like these are about the Ripples. It is a string of cause and effects, not about being good or evil. The sooner they learn this the better.

What do you all think of these two game's different ways of progression?

They were comparable for me. Atleast the first 2 mass effects and the first dragon age.

Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age 2 being my 2 least favorite bioware games they've ever created since like the Baulders Gate. (I've played them all since then besides sonic, I'm not sure what they did before).

Dragon Age 2 was pretty good, until they reversed/mirrored the dungeon and called it a new dungeon, multiple times.

However I disagree about ME3. there were al lot of different sidepaths at control, which races live/die etc. The end didn't have much effect, so I give that dragon age have a little more.

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I strenuously disagree with your strenuous disagreement...IMO

Because I agree with your apples and oranges comment. I prefer RPGs to TPS with strong RPG elements. So I had more fun with DA, meaning I've played through both DA games more often than I've played through the Mass Effect games, and that includes ME1 which I managed to score off my brother for PC.

Also Merrill > Tali

I disagree, although they are completely different Mass Effect is better.

There are 3 good Mass Effect games and 1 good Dragon age game.
The Sci-Fi setting is much more interesting and intriguing then another fantasy setting.
I prefer the gameplay, it is more fast paced and intense.
The characters and personalities in the Mass Effect series have more variety and are often very likeable and even awesome at times.
The narrative of Mass Effect (despite having several inconsistencies in the final game) has more side stories and levels of depth in comparison to a generic demons rising from the underworld fantasy plotline.

I know this might not be the popular opinion but I preferred DA1-2's transition of making combat more  action oriented much more than ME's transition. By ME3, almost everything RPG about it was ripped out and gutted to appeal to a larger audience I suppose. Now I am not saying DA was an over all better game in , it seriously lacks the luster and polish the ME series has. DA's respawning dungeons were really subpar and the graphics also leave much to be desired.

Yet Mass Effect used to have random generated planets that I though at least kept things interesting. ME2 and ME3, extremely limited when it came to exploration. In retrospect the series became quite linear (not FFXIII levels but still). I hated the fact ME's worlds got....smaller with each game :/

DA II's new combat system was complete win for me, the scope of that game also became more "focused" and linear but to a lesser extent than ME in my opinion.

Combat is not what I am focusing on here in this thread tho. I am talking about ME and DA's main objectives, to give gamers choices that matter and ripple through the entire game. I felt like there were so many cop outs in ME3, ruined the whole thing for me almost. DA doesn't claim to hold a higher standard of continuity between games so I never felt that was even necessary between the titles. Still, they do a fine job of it. The whole of ME2's party going MIA bugs me so much that I find it hard to even attempt to play through the game anymore after I beat it(much to my dissappointment to the ridiculous conclusions).

If they make three,like the first one,then I would have to agree with you.

My favorite genre is WRPG and the Mass Effect series is far superior to the Dragon Age series. It's really sad considering Dragon Age was being touted as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2 (IMO the best WRPG of all time) and it fell far short.

Well, all the mass effects were riddled with cop-outs... I'll give you that.

Dragon Age 2 didn't have that as much. With allistair appearing all drunk etc... bioware just copped out with making a complete game asset wise.. Most of the mansions/dungeons being the same dungeon with different locked doors.

so I agree in a sense.

imo mechanically dragon age 2 is superior. There's just those massive shortcomings that completely destroy my enjoyability of the game.

I like all five games. But in order of my favorites I would list them:
1 ME2
2 DAO
3 ME1
4 DA2
5 ME3

I don't think ME3 was a cop out. You do explore all of your choices in ME1 & ME2 during the course of ME3. They just aren't all thrown in at the end like it seems some people wanted. Granted, I have not seen the revised ending.