Forums - General Discussion - 9/11 was a conspiracy not a conspiracy theory

Do you believe the USA government was involved in 9/11?

Yes 181 40.58%
 
No 201 45.07%
 
Maybe 61 13.68%
 
Total:443
cyberninja45 said:
Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:
 

I never said it collapsed straight away but it imploded suddenly/rapidly before any chance for evacuation.(meaning the time between the jet collided and the implosion )


The time between when the jet collided and the implosion was an hour for one tower and an hour and a half for the other. In this time thousands of people were succesfully evacuated.

I really don't get what you're saying here?

Thousands of people evacuated doesn't mean an evacuation(full) of the building. Thousands of people died, thats not a successful evacuation.


You're saying that the collapse must be on purpose because the building was not able to be fully evacuated beforehand? That makes no sense, they were lucky to be able to evacuate as many as they did - in building collapses that rarely happens.



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Arguing with idiots (In this case 911 conspiracy theorists) is pointless becuase by arguing with them you show you are stupid enough to think they need recognition.



cyberninja45 said:

Thousands of people evacuated doesn't mean an evacuation(full) of the building. Thousands of people died, thats not a successful evacuation.

The vast majority of people who died in the WTC were those who died in the planes or in the building on impact, firefighters, or people who were above the point of impact.  How would you suggest they had been evacuated?  There were an estimated 14-17 thousand people in the towers at the time of the attacks.  Approximately 50 out of the 220 floors were either at the point of impact or above it.  That is 22.7%, if you take the middle of the two estimates and remove emergency personnel, that means about 14.2% of the people in the towers at the time of impact didn't manage to evacuate in time.  It's not a good number by any means, but the best you could probably hope for in the situation.

Also why do you keep talking about it collapsing rapidly?  Have you ever seen a large building collapse slowly?  Buildings are meant to hold up the floors above them, not catch them as they fall.  Once the collapse began the force on each subsequent floor increased substantially due to gravity and the increased mass of the falling floors.



Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:
Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:
 

I never said it collapsed straight away but it imploded suddenly/rapidly before any chance for evacuation.(meaning the time between the jet collided and the implosion )


The time between when the jet collided and the implosion was an hour for one tower and an hour and a half for the other. In this time thousands of people were succesfully evacuated.

I really don't get what you're saying here?

Thousands of people evacuated doesn't mean an evacuation(full) of the building. Thousands of people died, thats not a successful evacuation.


You're saying that the collapse must be on purpose because the building was not able to be fully evacuated beforehand? That makes no sense, they were lucky to be able to evacuate as many as they did - in building collapses that rarely happens.

Stop twisting my words, I never said the collapsed was on purpose or not. But if a scenario has to take place where only a certain section in  skyscrapers' upper steel support is weakened for whatever reason , then its obviously a 'stupid'  design where its highly possible in resulting in the entire building imploding completely, asymmetrically ,suddenly/rapidly where thousands of people may still be inside with little to no time for evacuation. Thats a DEATH TRAP.  That should only be possible with the use explosives at precise locations in a tall building. Especailly in skyscrapers of that capacity.

And  if you are proudly admitting this is the norm and nothing is wrong, then you are sounding foolish.



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SosusOCR said:
Arguing with idiots (In this case 911 conspiracy theorists) is pointless becuase by arguing with them you show you are stupid enough to think they need recognition.


Thanks for the name calling which I thought was done enough in the thread earlier.  Calling people that raise questions about the official story "idiots" doesn't help.  Can you at least admit that the US citizens have been misled plenty of times to go to war in the past.  Is it so hard to think that the citizens were perhaps duped again?  I can think of at least 4-5 recent wars where the USA government either provided false information/exaggerated incidents to the public to go war. 

 

Spanish-American War - USS Maine was probably blown up due to it's own ammo

WW1 - Lusitania - was carrying weapons along with passengers, Zimmerman note - do you really think Mexico would declare war against USA (even if they did they would have gotten their ass kicked just like in the Mexican-American War)

WW2 -  Higher up US officials knew of the attack yet let it happen (held carrier fleet outside Pearl Harbor)

Vietnam War - Gulf of Tonkin was completely made up

Afghanistan War - went to war because of 9/11 even though most of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, no way could we attack Saudi Arabia since the Bush family were such good friends with them, put most of the blame on the Taliban that were "harboring" Al Qaeda and sit in Afghanistan long past the time we are welcome

Iraq War - made up bullshit and lies spewed by the top US officials to get the drum beat for war



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cyberninja45 said:

Stop twisting my words, I never said the collapsed was on purpose or not. But if a scenario has to take place where only a certain section in  skyscrapers' upper steel support is weakened for whatever reason , then its obviously a 'stupid'  design where its highly possible in resulting in the entire building imploding completely, asymmetrically ,suddenly/rapidly where thousands of people may still be inside with little to no time for evacuation. Thats a DEATH TRAP.  That should only be possible with the use explosives at precise locations in a tall building. Especailly in skyscrapers of that capacity.

And  if you are proudly admitting this is the norm and nothing is wrong, then you are sounding foolish.

I wasn't trying to twist your words.

It may be a death trap but it's also the laws of physics - things fall downwards. When you have that much mass falling downwards then whatever is below it (in this case the rest of the tower) basically does not stand a chance. You cannot reasonably design for tens of thousands of tonnes of material falling on your building.



badgenome said:
Oh, Christ. Just when I thought this thread couldn't be any further removed from reality...

Navy SEALs was an awesome movie, and whoever says otherwise is worse than any truther.

Clearly Rol was talking about Hot Shots and Hot Shots part Deux...



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

cyberninja45 said:
Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:
Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:
 

I never said it collapsed straight away but it imploded suddenly/rapidly before any chance for evacuation.(meaning the time between the jet collided and the implosion )


The time between when the jet collided and the implosion was an hour for one tower and an hour and a half for the other. In this time thousands of people were succesfully evacuated.

I really don't get what you're saying here?

Thousands of people evacuated doesn't mean an evacuation(full) of the building. Thousands of people died, thats not a successful evacuation.


You're saying that the collapse must be on purpose because the building was not able to be fully evacuated beforehand? That makes no sense, they were lucky to be able to evacuate as many as they did - in building collapses that rarely happens.

Stop twisting my words, I never said the collapsed was on purpose or not. But if a scenario has to take place where only a certain section in  skyscrapers' upper steel support is weakened for whatever reason , then its obviously a 'stupid'  design where its highly possible in resulting in the entire building imploding completely, asymmetrically ,suddenly/rapidly where thousands of people may still be inside with little to no time for evacuation. Thats a DEATH TRAP.  That should only be possible with the use explosives at precise locations in a tall building. Especailly in skyscrapers of that capacity.

And  if you are proudly admitting this is the norm and nothing is wrong, then you are sounding foolish.



Dude... just stop.. your first post was fine because it was mostly opinion on who sounded foolish... But after you stated your stance on the situation you are the one who sounds foolish with your obvious lack of knowledge on how the world works...



Areym said:
NightDragon83 said:
Areym said:
I wish I could participate in the debate but sadly my knowledge of this is very minimal. I do believe, from what I've seen and know, the USA government was involved or let it happen, as the OP states.

Oh, and just what exactly is it that you've "seen and know" that led you to believe that the US government was involved or carried out the attacks that was different from what millions of us right here in the NY/NJ metro area witnessed right in front of our own lying eyes?  Homemade YouTube videos or foreign media reports?  Please.

For anyone to believe in any conspiracy regarding 9/11, you either have to have a predisposed negative viewpoint of the US and/or its government, or you are simply to young to actually remember the attacks, and just believe everything you see and hear on YouTube and nutty websites like Infowars and PrisonPlanet.


Yeah. foreign and youtube videos, is there a problem? I mean that's where the truth most likely would lie, from the people, not the goverment officials. A foreigner would have a less biased perspective or more biased, who knows. Look man, I don't see why it bothers you that we believe on somethign different. I've heard stories, spoken to a few people and yes, watched some youtube videos and came to a conclusion and if that bothers you, that we think differently or bash your beloved goverment, well that's just ice on the conspiracy cake.


Yes, there is tons wrong with that... I had a friend who showed me a youtube clip claiming dinosaurs were made up and another one talking about how hitler had no power and made no decisions and was just the fall guy of the germans... That guy went around telling other people these stories and he would get a crowd of young people circled around him believing his nonsense  without any evidence... The people who say US was involved in 9/11 sound just as ridiculous as him...

Oh... and he also preached about how we went to war with afghanastan for their diamonds....



Rath said:
cyberninja45 said:

Stop twisting my words, I never said the collapsed was on purpose or not. But if a scenario has to take place where only a certain section in  skyscrapers' upper steel support is weakened for whatever reason , then its obviously a 'stupid'  design where its highly possible in resulting in the entire building imploding completely, asymmetrically ,suddenly/rapidly where thousands of people may still be inside with little to no time for evacuation. Thats a DEATH TRAP.  That should only be possible with the use explosives at precise locations in a tall building. Especailly in skyscrapers of that capacity.

And  if you are proudly admitting this is the norm and nothing is wrong, then you are sounding foolish.

I wasn't trying to twist your words.

It may be a death trap but it's also the laws of physics - things fall downwards. When you have that much mass falling downwards then whatever is below it (in this case the rest of the tower) basically does not stand a chance. You cannot reasonably design for tens of thousands of tonnes of material falling on your building.

"After reading some comments I realize that there are  two types people here. One that believes 9/11 was a conspiracy, and one that does not. And have to say the ones that doesnt are the ones who sounds  foolish."

You didn't.  If someone says, "anyone who thinks it wasn't done on purpose is a fool," I'm gonna take that to mean he believes it was done on purpose. 

As for the death trap:  CYBERNINJA PAY ATTENTION TO THIS:  it is my understanding that there were three separate stairwells going all the way up the towers that could be used for evacuation, but the plane that hit the North tower destroyed ALL THREE of them on the level(s) where it hit, making them completely impassable due to debris/fire/etc.; and in the South tower, two were cut off and one was severely damaged/difficult to use.  If I am mistaken in this in any significant way someone please correct me. 

I think that having three independent means of evacuation is far from criminally negligent design; and IMO, you're overlooking the simple fact that to evacuate the top floor of a building you have to travel through all the floors below it, and that when one of those floors has been destroyed and filled with flaming jet fuel it might simply not be possible.  Do you think they should have provided parachutes? 

It is my understanding that the ONLY reason so many people died is because they were unable to evacuate the people who were stuck above the level where the plane crashed in the North tower, and people in the South tower were unaware that it was possible to use the one stairwell not completely impassable. 

I would also like to point out the following:  "evacuation below the impact zones was a success, allowing [over 90%] to safely evacuate". 

So, cyberninja, I am interested in what you have to say about all that. 



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