hoala said:

Sure, a PC compared to a console will always be more expensive. But the prices are still set in relation. You cant sell a 1000 dollar system for 500 bucks without taking a loss. Thats just not possible. You can for sure be 200-300€ cheaper at most.

Prices are entirely different, so no there's no comparison, this is a fact of console economics.

Your price comparisons are a read herring, because I never said anything about Nintendo using tech that could cost that. FYI a PC with that end price will have prices marked up not only on the GPU, but also on the CPU, memory, motherboard, HDD, OS costs will be split across all potential buyers, as a result actually yes you can make a system comparable to that $1000 system for likely under $500, when you take all factors into consideration.

Remember though that like I said the console market is designed to make money on games and DLC, maybe peripherals, making this point of yours moot. You can definitely have a unit more than $300 cheaper than a PC, but with comparable specs, it's just a fact of the console business.

Again: just the statement NX will move away from wii/wii u doesnt mean it will be powerfull.  Move away from wii/wii u by using an ARM chip is WAAAAY more likely.

Wii and Wii U were designed around factors that made them inherently weak, because they had motion gaming and the tablet as their core selling points, not hardware performance, NX is going to be the opposite of this approach. Arm just puts NX in the same low power  point and has no market that it can be sold to in the console space.

NX probl wont get many third party titles. Even the wii u didnt got MANY thrid party titles in its first year, it got  just like 50% (in terms of aa/aaa games).

Wii U lost 3rd party support because of when it launched, the low power tech, alien architecture and platform performance balance. Nintendo's approach wasn't conducive to getting 3rd party interested. If NX is going to be the opposite of Wii and Wii U, then it's going to be designed to appeal to the market that can actually cause Nintendo to have business growth, not the opposite of that.

Many third partys dont consider nintendo as an good partner. Mario and Assassins Creed dont work togehter, they learned that from the wii u.

Because of Nintendo's past approach and lack of consideration in hardware design, continuing this line of thinking is why Wii U has sold so badly, a different approach will change that. Wii U had the wrong system architecture, was built on tech that was already unattractive to PS3 and 360 owners, provided nothing new for them. The system was also outshone by the reveal of other 8th gen consoles, thus it was sent out to die, without a chance of putting up a fight.

The NX will offer something new to ps3/x360 and wii u owners. Beeing able to play new games on the same quality on the go and for an really cheap priece. Many people arnt that much into performance, its alot more about the image and the games. The ps4 was the first console in a looong time that was the best selling AND strongest. All prev. generations weaker hardware outsold expensive hardware.

This isn't enough, it doesn't give these gamers anything new from a gameplay perspective, people are definitely into better performance, 60 million 8th PS4 and Xbox One owners in 2 and a half years proves this and the fact that those sales are on the increase shows that the market is now interested more in moving to the current gen.

The fact PS4 has sold as well as it has shows that people want good value, with performance, which is exactly what the market for future console sales is about, not the same old level of tech at a cheaper price, it brings nothing to the table as far as the actual gameplay experience.

Even WITH ps4 and xbox one announcement the ps3 and xbox 360 outsold the wii u in its first year. Third partys still developed games for the 7th gen 2 years after ps4/xbox one releases. 

You're just supporting my points here. Nintendo didn't build Wii U to make porting games easy from PS3 and 360, the generation was already nearly over and Nintendo didn't make a platform for the next one, they just did what suits them, something that wasn't condusive to actually enticing 3rd party gamers to a new platform and certainly not a system that can get it's share of the market going forward. Too little too late, but we're not at that point in the life of PS4 and XB1 yet, there's still a huge 150 million plus people up grabs that were dedicated console owners last gen, plus a new generation of players, who will choose Sony or Microsoft if they don't have an alternative, NX has to be that alternative, it can't be something that only offers the market a level of tech and games that have been around for nearly a decade.

Cheap hardware is nintendos only chance. They failed to often with trying to compete in terms of power with the competition. If NX is just a more capable Ps4 which plays nintendo games and will get some third party titles. it will be Gamecube2.0.

It's not, tbh you're not really grasphing how the market works and certainly not what the markets are.

You've ignored where I said I don't think NX is just a more capable PS4, I said it's an OS, that can flexibly run games on a variety of different devices, all that can play games on the level of current consoles, but also be upgraded with new hardware iterations as the tech becomes affordable.

Processing tech close to PS4 and XB1 is cheap now, it's way more efficient in the 14nm node and if people can have that level of an experience, with the flexibility to choose what level of device they want to game on then it's possible Nintendo could actually move tonnes of hardware going forward.

Merging of handheld and console game development to put those games on every Nintendo device plugs their holes in game releases, getting 3rd party because you have comparable architecture and you also make your new IPs that entice 3rd party gamers to your new system brings you back to competition status.

This is Nintendo's only chance, not doing what didn't work on Wii U and just repackaging it with a new box and brand.

What I'm talking about would actually reinvigorate Nintendo's brand image to a level that it hasn't had since the SNES.

So as we know talked about the "fence => ventilator" thing, how do you thinka  fen will work in an handheld? The only x86 chips for far that dont need an ventilator are the Atom chips and intel core M´s. Atoms are weaker then modern ARM chips and intel core M´s arnt much more powerfull either but extreme expensive.

It's a matter of the devices case size, not the chips specifically, I've talked about heat output before and meeting power needs.

Polaris can easily offer sufficient performance, in a very low level of power consumption. Hell Wii U's gamepad is bigger than the console, yet the console can handle 33 watts of power consumption, which is a lower level of energy consumpion than notebooks require and I've already dealt with the issues of how much power a cheap battery can supply.

Even a 10 watt Polaris GPU produces 655GFlops, Excavator CPU Cores are very low on power consumption, at 28nm, a full Carrizo APU, with 8 CUs (800Gflops), 4 CPU cores can vary clock speeds and only use about 15 watts for the whole SOC, for a whole 14nm package, using AMD Zen CPU cores in 2017 they can probably ramp GPU performance and curb stomp Excavator's CPU performance.

Fences as you call them are much higher than you think. Passive cooling solutions have been improved and chips use very little energy to produce great processing performance.

Nintendo has access to technology that would let them more than double the performance of Wii U, in a cheap handheld, with at least half the power of XB1 for under $200, it's a fact, just look into AMD's Zen CPU tech, or their past Excavator based APUs, cost of Polaris GPU tech it all also adds up to the very reasons why Nintendo aren't releasing until March of 2017, because APUs using Zen aren't coming until around that time.

There's no Arm based products releasing around that time that can do this.

Arm doesn't make any sense for a console, consoles are still a part of Nintendo's plans, since that's the market they have to provide for.

NX will have the same launch problems. The wii u was similar to the x360, ps3 was the console with alien architecture. I already linked multiple sources where developer just talked about how simple it is to port from x360 to wii u.

No NX will not have the same launch problems, because it's releasing way before the end of the current console generation.

Wii U has RISC CPU technology, it's not CISC, the market moved to an X86 programming model at the beginning of the current generation and the CPU in Wii U was massively weaker than the 360's so any multiplats developed for last gen couldn't run directly on Wii U, not without major changes.

I already said that basically the 7th generation was over and Wii U wasn't designed with an X86 CPU, it's GPU massively underpowerd, basically everything about it makes it a messed up prospect for either porting games made for either 7th gen or the 8th.

You didn't provide multiple sources and as I pointed out the timing was off, that isn't the case for the NX.

That is maybe your thinking, but definitly it wont be the thinking of many third parties and they wont risk to invest much money into NX development for multiple reasons like mid cycle release, image, failing in the past, not enough ressources.

It is, it's the way it works. NX would have the same core CPU and GPU architecture as PS4 and XB1, so porting is dead easy, costs would be ultra low.

Creating incentive for the system is obviously Nintendo's own issue, but if you don't have the tech to run those games then you have no chance whatsoever, so it's better to make a system capable of running decent ports of 3rd party games, than to not. Having that tech in the system gives developers way more to work with, so that can do more for the gameplay in their titles, plus it's actually a step up from Wii U, so it's something Nintendo can actually market, besides being cheap.

Many Developer already are used to the 3 system development (ps4, xbox one, pc). They dont have ressources/team yet for another one and they wont build them up just because the nx might be succesfull. What you want nintendo to do is exactly the same they did with the gamecube and it wasnt a success either.

It would only require porting resources, which aren't huge, certainly nowhere near what's required to make a game, development costs would be divided further across this additional platform, so costs to 3rd party would actually go down overall and potential sales up.

No Gamecube didn't do this at all, for one thing NX would open up the huge potential for handheld customers to buy true 3rd party multiplats, something that hasn't happened in ages since the PSP days and the requirements to make a game for both it and a console would be neglible.

Also Gamecube relied on the same old Nintendo games, with very little in the way of new IPs that appeal to the western 3rd party market, you're really not getting this at all. NX is a handheld and console ecosystem, that all games run on, big install base overall and it's easy to port to, from what I understand Gamecube wasn't easy to develop for, unless you were used to it's technology. Gamecube also had weird, small capacity discs, as was the usual quirk with Nintendo having funky storage media in the past, somethign that isn't an issue no with modern options, they all have decent bandwidth and SDHC cards have the best speed, even better than HDD, which is something that developers would like.

Gamecube's sales for 3rd party games were better than Wii U got, hardware too, if Nintendo could get that on their NX console, plus 3rd party sales on an NX handheld (which would likely be pretty huge compared to Nintendo's past efforts) this would be a huge boost for Nintendo's income.

The Ps4 didnt bring much "new gameplay experience" to the table. Uncharted 4 isnt much different from previous titles. Just better grpahics, graphics a 2011 pc can handle.

Oh yes PS4 is, I gave a bunch of examples, Uncharted 4 in particular packs in awesome physics tech that just could be done before, much bigger environments, better AI, basically every aspect of the gameplay in that title is a result of better tech and the developer's efforts in using it.

Something like Horizon couldn't run on last gen systems and BTW a 2011 PC is still way more powerful than a 7th gen console and Wii U.

As for your point about 2011 PC tech, well it's significantly more powerful and capable than what Wii U has and utterly destroys it in the potential for what developers could accomplish on PS4. NX will not be as limited, since this is precisely one of the core reasons why people didn't choose Wii U over PS4 or XB1, both of the latter can do much more than Wii U can. Nintendo would be fools to let their new system be incapable of at least offering the same capabilities, if not a few more than newer hardware can offer.

Again the Wii U was very similar to the x360 and i already gave many sources here about how easy porting is.

Wii U has a significantly weaker and different CPU (Out of Order execution and strange cache set-up), not to forget that it's DDR3 memory was very slow, when 360 multiplats were designed around a faster CPU and memory pool, plus you've ignored the point that Wii U came out 7 years after the 360 did, the generation was already done, NX will still have time and actual comparable tech to PS4 or XB1 at least.

That already available and no invention or something completly new. Its called windows/steam OS and PC.

It's not available within the console space, it's never been and that's the point. Options, flexibility, much more condusive to the target market involved than a cheap weak duo of systems that won't interest anyone.

An OS based approach and transitional hardware model is entirely new within the console market.

batterys arnt just mah. A ventilor in a nintendo handheld will never happen. The gamepad is not bigger as the wii u. 

Batteries are power cells, simple. Ventilators aren't needed, this is ridiculously low power and passive cooling is all that's needed, yes the gamepad is bigger.

655 Gflops is just 2-3x as much as the wii u, far from ps4´s level. Even 10 wattage ULV´s need ventilator and have low battery life.

655Gflops is closest to XB1, I've mentioned that factor multiple times for the handheld portion of the platform, which is what rumors have said is the case with the NX handheld. Passive cooling can easily solve this problem, by having a small radiator set-up inside of the system, piping any heat from SOC, memory, etc and away from those parts.

Batteries are no issue, I've dealt with that already, not going through it multiple times, again and again.