| JWeinCom said:
Gender has existed for at least all of human history, and probably before that. Look in the bible, which contains different rules for men and women. There is no biological reason women should not be able to speak in church for instance, that is not about sex, that is about gender, the socially constructed rules we apply to different sexes. Absolutely not a new thing. |
Some would argue that both church and religion are a social construct.
I think even religious people would have a hard time arguing that church isn't a social construct.
| JuliusHackebeil said:
But using plural pronouns for a singular person? That is over the line for me. Or made up pronouns like xir, zyr,... I once unironically herd a person claim "clown and clownself" as her pronouns. Ridiculous. |
| JWeinCom said:
Gender has existed for at least all of human history, and probably before that. Look in the bible, which contains different rules for men and women. There is no biological reason women should not be able to speak in church for instance, that is not about sex, that is about gender, the socially constructed rules we apply to different sexes. Absolutely not a new thing. Unless you are performing an anatomical exam on every person before describing them with a pronoun, then your pronoun usage is based largely on their gender, your perception of their sex based on how they present themselves. But most importantly, I do not believe for a solitary second that anybody is so deeply concerned about proper grammar that they throw constant hissy fits over pronoun usage. The English language is routinely violated on a daily basis. You was originally used for formal situations (the equivalent of the usted form in Spanish), yet now we use it in very informal situations (i.e. you are late to the orgy). Yet, nobody is clutching their pearls and feigning outrage that the way we used a pronoun has changed. In fact, I can't think of any other time improper language usage has caused such disdain. As someone who has a degree in English, I am perfectly happy to use incorrect grammar if doing so will make someone else feel seen and respected. Because, it's fucking grammar. I don't give a shit. Nobody gives a shit. And the fact that they only give a shit in one narrow situation which involves a group of people that is constantly discriminated against is sus as fuck.
Seriously, if anyone is actually upset that they have to use a plural pronoun when they think it should technically be a singular pronoun, they should be in a padded cell. |
| JWeinCom said:
But, in individual cases, there are certainly people I know for a fact appreciate it when I use their preferred pronouns and would feel disrespected if I did not. So in such cases, hence the "if", I am happy to use a pronoun whether or not I think it is incorrect. Because again, it is grammar, I don't give a shit. |
Person A - My pronoun is Xir
Person B - Nice to meet you Sir
Person A - No it's Xir
Person B - Yes I know, Sir
Person A - You're spelling/saying it wrong
Person B - I don't give a crap about grammar or pronunciation
Person A - (tears) You're a bigot and a racist
Person B - (confused) What did I do wrong?
A poor minority approaches the security guards at a bank and tells them they're a poor minority who feels disrespected and unrepresented and they themselves feel terrible about it, suicidal almost. They explain to the guards that they are going to rob the bank just this once to get some money, and that as long as everyone just goes along with it then nobody will get hurt, which will lead to they themselves feeling happy, more equal, respected and understood.
Should the security guards stop giving a crap about rules and make this individual feel better?
I'd say the rules matter. The only question really is what the right rules are exactly.
