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John2290 said:
EricHiggin said:

Trumps people in the know have been saying for a short while that he's a "war time President". Bannon especially when he's interviewed. Not like I think they're actually going to war physically, but I wouldn't be surprised if Trump finally puts the screws to China every other way he can once this is over.

That rethoric on a war on the virus is looking like a bad idea now, they should indeed pull back on that and nah, There is no other outcome than full on war when the masses catch up on this and anger starts to rise, The administration has started putting things in palce, we've seen the moves already with Trumps war on Madorro's drugs, It's the front line on Chinas doorstep and if Trumps and Xi's relationship really was going as well as he is saying, they wouldn't be showing their claws militarily in the SCS right now.

Trumps just flexing and Xi is just responding. America doesn't need all out war to fix their problems with China. Odds are good that some the rest of the world will be on board with helping America now as well, which will make it even easier, especially considering knowing how much a real war with China could hurt many other nations indirectly.

SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:

So more fake news from the MSM? I wish I could be surprised.

Pretty hard to blame the Gov initially for a lot of reasons. Once it's here, well, we're human beings and mother nature does her best to balance all herds. Assuming this was all natural that is. Gov's are in a new situation and trying to outsmart her, so it's not all that easy to lay blame.

If everyone most vulnerable is kept on lock down, as much as reasonably possible anyway, then why should the hospitals get's overburdened? The overwhelming majority of people wouldn't need hospitalization since they would be young and healthy. Anyone who doesn't want to risk it in those age ranges, let them make the choice to stay home. Let the rest fight it off like a common cold/flu while they all become immune to it, since they would be the type of people who are the most active and most likely to contract and spread it anyway. The ones who need more serious medical treatment can go to the hospital. Then if need be, lock things down for a couple weeks after it seems like the majority of these age ranges have gotten over it, to try and snuff the illness out once and for all. Then slowly open things back up to everyone. Some will still likely contract it here and there and may need to be hospitalized, but you've spread out the curve already so it shouldn't be a problem for the healthcare system going forward.

I'm not doctor or specialist, but it seems like the majority of the problem is the older age groups or underlying illness. It looks as though the most likely reason for the spread of the virus, has been from younger healthier people who aren't taking it as seriously because they can get away with it. The sooner they all become immune to it, the less likely they are to spread it to the elderly down the road. Which also means things get back to normal sooner than later. How long do you really think it's going to take to come up with a vaccine? Are we really going to keep things locked down for years until one possibly arrives? The experts have been saying this is going to keep happening more often with the way the world operates. Are we really going to just shut the world down for years every time this happens, more and more? How long before we shut things down because of the thousands or tens of thousands who die every flu season from the common flu?

There are a lot of assumptions in there. Things that all still need to be sorted out. Yes, people with comorbidities have a higher chance to need to be hospitalized, but the reverse is not guaranteed. It is not just fighting off the flu even though there are many with very mild symptoms. It can take a turn for the worse very rapidly.

The hospitals here are overcrowded with not much going on. When my wife had a very dangerous (rare) infection, she had to wait for 30 hours to get a room, in June. Eventually they put her in the maternity ward since there was some space available there. Our healthcare system runs at maximum capacity at the best of times. They sent her home very early as well, still had to go back to get a pick line installed and self administer antibiotics through a pump for 2 months.

How do you propose separating age ranges and people at risk from the young and healthy? They still need food, they have kids, parents, live together with others, visitation rights for divorced parents, doctors visits. We're not China, we can't just round up people, separate them from their family and isolate them in camps for a couple months while the rest works through it.

Then we have no guarantees yet that build up immunity actually works. What is enough exposure, how long does immunity last etc.

It sucks, it really really sucks. My wife is devastated, her home business is practically done. Can't sell anything anymore, can't get inventory. She has shipments of live plants from the US waiting yet no way to get it shipped here. Plant imports are closed down, normal mail is regularly getting decontaminated in a way anything living won't survive. She has the phytosanitary certificates all in order, yet the handling agencies are closed, so it will just sit at the border and die. All her money made last year invested in new stock to cross pollinate, no way to get it.



What I think is the only option is to get ahead of the virus with faster testing and better tracing of contacts. That cube that's currently being developed is supposed to be able to deliver test results within an hour. When we get the virus suppressed far down enough that we can get on top of tracing the chain of infection, we will be able to open things up again. People will still need to be diligent and practice social distancing just in case as well as report any signs of symptoms immediately. That way when a case is found, there will be less contacts to check and less chance it has spread already.

Life won't be back to normal until after a vaccine is readily available (1 to 2 years from now) but it doesn't have to be like it is now.

There are a lot of assumptions in general as a whole.

Hospitals around here aren't packed. They're pretty slow, and not just because everything else hospital related is getting put on hold. Instead of locking people down in denser cities, they should be allowing them to spread out. Those at risk then need to stay put however. Spread the individuals who need hospitalization over a broader area so the burden is shared more equally. The more spread out people were, the less risk of contracting it. Physical distancing right?

Let people make their own decision based on age and health. They know their own risks for the most part. People who have to go out and get stuff now, either are getting others to get it for them, or are going themselves anyway if they have no other choice, so that doesn't change much. People should also be covering up with whatever they can. It may not do everything, but it will help. Completely exposing yourself is just making it easier to contract.

I've read people are being tested for antibodies and have immunity so yes you can become immune. How long does that last? More than a week or two. You don't need experts to tell you that. If that's how are bodies worked, we'd all be screwed. We don't understand it 100%, but we also know what it's not.

No way will everyone get tested, or vaccinated. That's never going to happen and not because the system wouldn't be able to accomplish it, so letting it pass through the strong now and ending it or limiting it's weaker hosts after the fact makes more sense.

If this continues it's going to get out of hand. I've seen ever growing social groups planning protests if changes aren't made or the lock down isn't lifted, which will make things even worse for a while if they happen. The Gov's can't allow things to continue like this, and the people themselves won't allow it. Either a vaccine by chance shows up much sooner than later, or reasonable logical changes are made to the lock down, or people stop listening and things get much worse overall.