John2290 said:
Absolute power, what the fuck was he thinking. This is nearly as bad as the UK police service saying they'll pop out from behind a bush to get you even if you're in in the middle of nowhere. Ninja's we are, You won't see us coming until you see our shadow you sun bathing, picnic having, fun loving scum. They have all got to start showing a light hand before they go and start protest or riots and it'll all be for naught. I'd be surprised if people who are already locked down close to a month will make it much into may before things start erupting but go on with rethoric like this and keeping people "safe at home" will be the least of the immediate concerns. |
Unless what I've seen was doctored, Trump initially gave a more legitimate response along the lines of 'the President has the power that the Constitution gives them', since he wasn't going to try and explain it all, not that he likely knows everything he can and can't do for sure anyway. Then after being pressed further, he does what he does best, and gives the reporter a ridiculous answer to run with, 'I have absolute power', which becomes the headline while the initial answer is swept under the rug like it never happened. lol.
SvennoJ said:
EricHiggin said:
I really don't like our Gov and JT leading it, but I don't put much blame on them this time around. Some, but not much. They initially handled it about the way I assumed they would, like many other first world countries. Nobody was going to jump to conclusions and risk being wrong. From a leadership perspective, it was far more likely they would wait till it got close before clamping down. That way they had a clear legitimate excuse to do so. Taking away peoples freedoms because we might end up with a problem, for around 1% of the country, typically doesn't go over well even in oh so forgiving Canada.
We also aren't anywhere near as densely populated as America, and our overall system is better built to handle crisis. Most times when America is hurting, we're not, or barely. Mind you, when America is thriving, we're only doing slightly better, unless you're smart enough to invest in American stocks.
The things I've been hearing are ridiculous though. A father and his two kids out walking some trail close to their home, with nobody else in sight, getting a $1000 ticket for not remaining indoors. The local county saying police will be pulling over random vehicles and if you aren't traveling for what they find to be valid reasons, you'll be sent home and fined up to $1000. The media now consistently saying that 'social distancing' could last up to two years. LOL. Give me a break.
Meanwhile a somewhat local old folks home had like 50 deaths recently because the care workers have been allowed to cycle home to home due to temporary work hours, more easily potentially contracting it and spreading covid. Good thing someone paid close attention to making strict rules for those most in jeopardy. My lord.
One of the things I'm most worried about is this dragging on, and I have a hard time believing that's not going to be the case based on the illness. If everyone has to be locked down like this, then the UK had the right idea for the most part. Lock down the elderly and anyone with underlying illness, and let everyone else contract it and become immune to it. The way it spreads in lock down, should mean it spread like wildfire typically and would be gone in no time. At the very least, once medical supplies are built up, go with that approach, don't drag it out leaving everyone stuck at home.
When this is all over, Canada, and the rest of the world, better give China a swift non physical kick in the a** for letting it get this out of hand. They've been getting away with too much already, so if this isn't the final straw, then we might as well just give up and bow to them.
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Those stories about getting fines were false though, the police doesn't have the power to do that. Only some local counties now have by laws to fine gatherings of 5 or more people. You can get a ticket from trespassing on closed trails, but you have to be convicted in court first, which are closed.
And true, the whole "It's just the flu" attitude which was very strong at the time made it very difficult for governments to act early. It was a no win situation, act early, prevent a problem and everyone blames the government for over reacting. However the government did drop the ball with testing, tracing contacts and tracking down community spread.
Back to letting it spread to build up immunity? I thought we were passed that as a viable option... Keeping everyone over 40 on lock down, how do you envision that? Then the 30 to 40 age bracket can still overwhelm the healthcare system.
For Ontario, if you let it spread again and get a peak of 40% infected:
20-29: 1.8 million -> 700k infected -> 8.5K hospitalizations and 420 in ICU
30-39: 1.7 million -> 680K infected -> 22K hospitalizations and 1100 in ICU
40-49: 1.8 million -> 720K infected -> 35K hospitalizations and 2200 in ICU
50-59: 2.0 million -> 820K infected -> 84K hospitalizations and 10,200 in ICU
60-69: 1.6 million -> 630K infected -> 105K hospitalizations and 28,800 in ICU
70-79: 0.9 million -> 370K infected -> 90K hospitalizations and 38,700 in ICU
80+: 0.6 million -> 240K infected -> 65K hospitalizations and 45,900 in ICU
Ontario has about 33K hospital beds, we only have 2.3 hospital beds per 1000 people, Ontario has the most overcrowded hospitals in the developed world.
Apr 3, 2020 - The province has an estimated 415 ICU beds available now, as the Ford government attempts to create the hundreds of new spaces.
If we hadn't been chipping away on healthcare for all those years we would be in a better position right now. It's not all our fault of course, brain drain has been a long term issue. Much better money to made in the US as a doctor, get your cheap education here, get a well paying much less stressful job in the states.
Suppressing it now, then improve testing and tracing to keep it down until a vaccine or better treatment options are available is the best strategy. For now half of those ending up in ICU don't make it, many don't even make it to ICU.
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So more fake news from the MSM? I wish I could be surprised.
Pretty hard to blame the Gov initially for a lot of reasons. Once it's here, well, we're human beings and mother nature does her best to balance all herds. Assuming this was all natural that is. Gov's are in a new situation and trying to outsmart her, so it's not all that easy to lay blame.
If everyone most vulnerable is kept on lock down, as much as reasonably possible anyway, then why should the hospitals get's overburdened? The overwhelming majority of people wouldn't need hospitalization since they would be young and healthy. Anyone who doesn't want to risk it in those age ranges, let them make the choice to stay home. Let the rest fight it off like a common cold/flu while they all become immune to it, since they would be the type of people who are the most active and most likely to contract and spread it anyway. The ones who need more serious medical treatment can go to the hospital. Then if need be, lock things down for a couple weeks after it seems like the majority of these age ranges have gotten over it, to try and snuff the illness out once and for all. Then slowly open things back up to everyone. Some will still likely contract it here and there and may need to be hospitalized, but you've spread out the curve already so it shouldn't be a problem for the healthcare system going forward.
I'm not doctor or specialist, but it seems like the majority of the problem is the older age groups or underlying illness. It looks as though the most likely reason for the spread of the virus, has been from younger healthier people who aren't taking it as seriously because they can get away with it. The sooner they all become immune to it, the less likely they are to spread it to the elderly down the road. Which also means things get back to normal sooner than later. How long do you really think it's going to take to come up with a vaccine? Are we really going to keep things locked down for years until one possibly arrives? The experts have been saying this is going to keep happening more often with the way the world operates. Are we really going to just shut the world down for years every time this happens, more and more? How long before we shut things down because of the thousands or tens of thousands who die every flu season from the common flu?
Last edited by EricHiggin - on 15 April 2020
