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sundin13 on 10 October 2018
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o_O.Q said:
sundin13 said:

1) First of all, I believe my only real comment on rape culture in this thread was to say that the idea is meaningless and subjective. You seem to be making an assumption about me here, which is not supported by the comments made in this thread.

But I'll treat that as a question and answer it for you, with a resounding, "kinda".

I don't believe that rape, with a hard "r" is normalized. I think at times it may be swept under the rug to avoid inconvenient truths, but there is a reason authors say that rape (hard "r") is the one crime which makes a character permanently evil. You cannot write a sympathetic rapist, or at least so says conventional wisdom.

But "rape" goes far beyond the "man grabs a woman in an alley and rapes her with a knife to her neck". It also means "man buys woman shots until she gets drunk enough to stop saying no", or "man has sex with woman who says no but doesnt act the way he thinks she would if she truly meant it". I think these definitions are where a lot of the issue here comes in. Is it normalized to try to liquor a girl up to get in her pants? 100%. Is it normalized to display sexual dominance when a woman has a moment of doubt? 100%.

2) Again, I don't think you can say that men are more at risk of rape, when in general the risk of rape for is very low except for one extremely high risk population. You can't really use an outlier to make conclusions about the whole group. Especially when the data shows that if you look within even these groups, women are still more at risk than men.

To make a comparison, if you took a neighborhood with 9 people making $10k and 1 person making $1million, you would have 90% of your population under the poverty line, but because of your outlier, your average earnings are about $100,000. Would it be accurate to say that the average person here is upper-middle class? No, an average person in this neighborhood is below the poverty line. Basically, using strict averages becomes significantly less effective when you have a data source with a massive outlier such as this. Generally, in case like this, utilizing a median would be more effective. To quote a website discussing when to use mean vs median:

"Whenever a graph falls on a normal distribution, using the mean is a good choice. But if your data has extreme scores (such as the difference between a millionaire and someone making 30,000 a year), you will need to look at median, because you’ll find a much more representative number for your sample."

In your general NCVS population, it is generally considered that about 10% of victims are male. This makes a prevalence of about 0.2 in 1000 by my math. This means that in prison populations, sexual victimization is about 500 times more prevalent than in the general population. Because of this, you get incredibly skewed data because of an outlier high risk population.

1) "Is it normalized to try to liquor a girl up to get in her pants? 100%. Is it normalized to display sexual dominance when a woman has a moment of doubt? 100%."

so what is your point here? to prohibit men from buying drinks for women? and to stop men from begging women for sex?

the first one can be done,,, but you'll never accomplish that second one

2) " when in general the risk of rape for is very low except for one extremely high risk population. "

anyone can become a member of that population at any time, but that's irrelevant anyway since to reiterate more men are raped than women

i understand your point but it does not contradict mine and come on dude those men matter why are you trying to minimize their pain and suffering like this?

3) "You can't really use an outlier to make conclusions about the whole group."

rape victims are outliers lol, are you being serious right now?

 how is the cognitive dissonance not tearing you in two?

if i can't make the point that the men suffering in prison matter when we talk about rape victims since they are outliers then how can you build an argument about the culture of a society when the same applies to rape victims?

4) "To make a comparison"

i'd still assume that a line of best fit would still show men as being the primary victims of rape... if i'm wrong then do the graph and show me

 

5) "In your general NCVS population, it is generally considered that about 10% of victims are male. This makes a prevalence of about 0.2 in 1000 by my math. This means that in prison populations, sexual victimization is about 500 times more prevalent than in the general population."

what about the reliable feminist statistics that claim that 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 women are raped?

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/20/health/global-violence-women/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sexual-assault-women-one-five-rape-harassment-figures-report-a8201476.html

1) ...My point is that people should stop raping other people. I don't really think that is very radical, although I must note that you statement sounds a lot like "normalizing rape"...

2) I don't really think the physical possibility of joining a population negates the fact that the population is a statistical outlier...

Also, you seem to keep ignoring women when speaking about prison rape. You keep saying "these men" or acting like prison rape statistics are 100% male. They aren't.

3) When I speak of "outliers" I am speaking of outlier populations. You seem to be conflating this with "outlier individuals". They are not the same thing.

4) Why would you ever decide to use a best fit line in this scenario? That holds all the same flaws as the mean. There is not really any reason to use this method of determination (and besides, it would be virtually impossible to construct such a graph). Besides, if you were to plot by prevalence and not population size, women would be more at risk when comparing between virtually every like-population, including prison populations... This has already been demonstrated.

5) ...That reads to me like a non sequitur. I don't know how you want me to respond, especially when I've already addressed those statistics in this thread.