eva01beserk said:
setsunatenshi said:

on the same metric, how do you actually determine the risk of being falsly accused is not just as high as the one of actually being raped? a rape accusation does not correspond to an actual rape until it's proven, right?

Basically what I'm saying is you're correctly calling him out on on equating one "risk" to the other, but it goes both ways. Someone added in a comment women had a 1/5 chance to get raped and I fail to see how that's any more valid than his false rape accusation argument. 

I never claimed that to begin with, someone else made an obvious hyperbole to make a point and Im pretty sure that other person also dosent believe that such risk are at the same level.

Correct. It wasn't about the risk itself and who had it the worst, it was about the feeling of safety, and how they both fear sexual assault in their own way.

Mnementh said:
OlfinBedwere said:

Firstly, that's not what I asked. You implied that men were at as much risk of being falsely accused of sexual harassment and/or rape as women were of actually having those crimes happen to them. Regardless of those high-profile examples you cited, do you have any proof that this is something happening in wider society?

Secondly, you do understand that "unproven accusation" doesn't automatically equate to "false accusation", right?

What, the discussion was entirely about the feeling of safety. It started off with a list of how women feel unsafe. Neither for rape or false accusations was more cited than the feeling it could happen.So far I have to see proof for either in this thread.

And for secondly: do you know why we have built up standards for prosecution over the years? If you undermine them by destroying peoples lifes without a proper court, it will blow in your face. Because mighty people can manipulate suchj stuff muhc easier. So if in the future twitter mobs can pressure comanies to fire people the mob dislikes, this wiill surely not make our society better.

It wasn't about the risk it was about the feelings of safety and fear.

This is tricky but here's a way to look at it. Imagine some bonafide individual came forward and said to the mathematics/scientific community, that they made a breakthrough and could prove that there is something faster than light, but they need more time to be able to properly explain how they came to this conclusion. Those communities don't automatically assume this is the new standard, or that it's even correct at all, they assume it must be wrong until it's 100% proven, beyond doubt, multiple times.

If someone makes a claim and can't prove it, it's basically seen to be false, until more evidence could eventually be brought forward to finally completely prove it. Documenting victims as unsolved ongoing cases, is more so to do with their feelings, and the fact that if the false accusations number is too high, legit victims will be less inclined to come forward, because people will be more prone to assuming it's not true. It's a harsh but true reality.

SpokenTruth said: 

We have a rape culture when the first thing we consider about the rape victim is why didn't they do something to prevent it and the first thing we consider about the alleged rapist is how this will impact his future.

We have a false accusation culture when the first thing we consider about the accuser is that they are to be believed no matter what and the first thing we consider about the accused is that they must be guilty.

We have a male hate culture when the first thing we consider about the accuser is if their gender is female they are to be believed and the first thing we consider about the accused is if their gender is male they are assumed to be guilty.

We have a ... endless amount of these. None of which are helpful unless they are clearly true, and all of which are harmful if they are not.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 07 October 2018