Did Nintendo screw us?

[Final-Fan]

Smash_Brother said:

Final-Fan said:

Smash_Brother said:

Final-Fan said:
If you PERSONALLY hate almost every single PS2 game in existence, that does NOT mean that all those games can objectively be called "utter garbage".

On the contrary. I've called them utter garbage many times and I was quite objective as I did so.

Don't take it personally. I readily acknowledge that I'm the minority in this opinion, but unless someone wants to buy me a new PS2 and all of the games they think I should try, my opinion will not change.

That said, I acknowledge that most Wii games are also garbage. In fact, most games in general are garbage, but this is the nature of any market where creative output is a factor in product development.

objective adj. 1 b: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind
3 a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

Here, I am using "objective" to mean the CONSENSUS of hundreds (reviewers) or millions (gamers) of subjective opinions. After all, "objective" reality, the world we live in, is defined by consensus opinion. Those who disagree with the consensus are, in that case, insane.

You are free to have the opinion that you do of PS2 games; neither I nor any sensible person will try to deny you that. But when you attempt to use your PERSONAL dislike of all those games to base an argument on that attempts to make a statement pertaining to ALL gamers, your argument fails! Basically, you're making arguments based on a statistical sample of one person -- you. That's fine if we're talking about YOU, but we're talking about the whole market, the whole industry, and that's why your statement can't (yes, can't) be both objective and accurate.

Millions of people love country music.

Millions of people watch American Idol.

Millions of people give a crap about what Britney Spears is up to.

The aforementioned millions would happily consider me insane for not sharing in their tastes, but I will not bend to their whims and admit insanity so that they can feel better about their opinions and I will likewise not do so for PS2 lovers, either.

On the topic, the TC has yet to give anything even resembling a logical argument regarding why Nintendo is to blame for shovelware.

Sigh. You're taking a fish out of water and asking why it dies.

I hate country music too. If you were to put me down in the middle of a *Google search* Toby Keith concert, I would be completely out of place, a lone dissenting opinion among thousands -- "insane". One of those country fans would, I suppose, be "insane" at a KISS concert. This so completely misses my point that I can't help but wonder if it's deliberate. You are taking a sample consisting of one person (who hates almost every PS2 game in existence) and using it in arguments as if it is representative of the market as a whole. This is wrong. It is wrong because the market loved the PS2 and its games. Your "counterexamples", if I can even call them that, are meaningless because you are taking one subset of Americans and applying its appetites to a member of another subset of Americans and saying "so different LOL". (Admittedly the second subset is the subset with good taste .) I'm sure you would get a lot more people agreeing that at least 98% of PS2 games are not worth their time if you went and asked the Amish.

I tried very carefully, by the way, to word my post in such a way that made it very clear that I was not trying to say or imply that you were insane. Apparently you took offense anyway.

No one is trying to deny you your opinion or say it is not legitimate, which you ought to know if you actually read my entire post. However, arguments about the quality of (for instance) PS2 games IN THE CONTEXT OF the market as a whole based on your personal opinion are obviously worthless because your opinion is so wildly unrepresentative of that market and the GENERAL opinions of the members of that market as a whole.  (I'd sympathize with wanting to go by reviewer consensus rather than the unwashed masses but you're so far from either group that it hardly matters.)

Regarding your final sentence: Yes. Which is why I thought we should throw out the unsupported arguments (literally 98% of PS2 games are complete garbage) in favor of well-supported arguments (which are legion).