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NSMBW sells over 500k units in its third week in Japan (1.9M LTD)

Forums - Sales Discussion - NSMBW sells over 500k units in its third week in Japan (1.9M LTD)

DM235 said:
killeryoshis said:

ARE YOU SERIOUS? You need a history lesson and know that LBP is a new IP

From what I've seen, most sequels sell the same or less than their predecessors, so I was expecting NSMBWii to be comparable to Super Mario Galaxy.  From that I've seen, there was more advertising for LBP.  NSMBWii is also introduces 4-player co-op play, for the first time in a Mario platformer, which I think makes it more like LBP than a previous Mario game (I am guessing a bit here since I have never played NSMBWii).  LBP also received higher review ratings.

Gears of War was a new IP and it sold very well.  

If there is some other "history lesson" I should know about, please care to educate me.

Want a history lesson? ok.

Mario Galaxy's sales are actually "dissapointing" for a main line Mario platformer, yes i am serious.

well how on earth is 8M+ is dissapointing sales wise?

Because Mario games usually sell in the range of 15~ 20 Million units, so these sales of NewSMBWii is inline of what Mario games usually sell, like what it is little sister NewSMB on the DS managed to sell.

 

So why LBP didn't do as good as NewMarioBros.Wii?? well there are several reasons really:

It is a new Ip: meaning the consumers don't have a past title or another game similar to it on the system to relate it to.

No brand recognition: who made the game? is it the most famous game developers and publishers on the market? or new developers who have no fame to carry the game on? this is related to the game being recognised by the consumers too.

But Gears of War sold well and LBP did't even if it is a new IP! so what gives? well: I haven't played the game but is it a FPS by any chance? because i heard it is all the rage this gen.

It was advertised: alot of games were advertised too, some of them become a sucsess and some not, IMO LBP was decent sales wise (stop comparing it to Mario,because it will look like a HUGE bomba compared to it, only few games match it sales wise)



^^^ This is what you get for blowing a rumor out of proportion

Chocobo brain damage!!! Here, drink this diet Coke..*runs*

Currently playing :

VC - Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen
Wii - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
DS - Glory of Heracels

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RolStoppable said:
AdventWolf said:
If it had an official built in level editor like LittleBigPlanet then it would probably be THE best game of the generation. A level editor for a 2D Mario game is pure EPICNESS.

It is THE best game of the generation already, without having a level editor.

I guess I can live with this:)



Gaming make me feel GOOD!

Killergran said:
DM235 said:

And I wasn't expecting them to sell equally, but NSMBWii is selling so well as if they're giving away real gold coins with each game.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii captures the most important values the Wii stands for. In short, if you buy a Wii are very likely to be interested in the game. It's also based on one of the best known characters in the world and it's a spiritual sequel to the second best selling games in the world. Everybody knows it, everybody can play it, everyone that has a Wii shares some of the values the game is based on.

Now look at Little Big Planet. It really doesn't go well with the rest of the Playstation library. Quirky and fun isn't really the image the PS3 has, is it? It's more closely associated with epic and techniqually superior games. There are no iconic characters, no recognition, no really mindblowing innovations. Just a critically acclaimed game that has a bunch of minor innovations that makes it feel fresh.

And really, almost 3 million is not at all bad for a PS3 game. Not at all bad. It's the 11th best seller on the PS3, according to VGChartz numbers. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is currently nr 10 on Wii, according to the same source, even though that's going to change next week...

So you agree, it's a lot to do with Mario?  Have you played both?

I somewhat disagree with the library comment.  The PS2 had a fair number of million+ selling platformers (Crash Bandicoot, Ratchet and Clank, Jak), but so far only Ratchet has appeared on the PS3 (PS1 games excluded).  But the PS3 does have it's share of quirky games (Buzz and EyePet come to mind).  I know that Sony has been trying hard to compete with Microsoft, and therefore the image of the PS3 has been leaning toward a hardcore gamer demographic, but to me it is still more of a jack-of-all-trades type console, with something for everyone. 

I think at this point that most people know who Sackboy is, and I don't think that NSMBWii has mindblowing innovations (just a great formula that works).  It is lacking the recognition, as it is a new IP.  I also have to throw in once piece of anecdotal evidence here.  My wife does not play video games.  However, when I showed her NSMB DS, she liked it, and she actually finished it.  When I showed her LBP, she also liked it and finished it.  What was even more surprising was that she would actually ask me to play LBP with her, when normally she'd rather watch TV.  I know that one sample point is far from being statistically significant, I think you have to agree that both games have a lot of appeal to gamers / casual gamers and even non-gamers.

Do you think that people that don't normally play platformers would pick up a copy of NSMBWii?

What my thought process was that there is a similar percentage of gamers on each console who like to play platformers (maybe this was my error in judgement).  If a platformer was released on both the PS3 and the Wii, I would expect the Wii game to sell twice as much, given that is has roughly twice the marketshare (63 million vs 30 million).  Using this logic, NSMBWii should sell 6 million.  You and I both know that it will sell far more than that (20 million maybe?).  Although Super Mario Galaxy is close to this formula, at about 8 million.

Looking deeper into the numbers, it looks like Japan just never caught on to LBP.  It has only sold 0.15 million, while NSMBWii is already at 2.0 million.



silverlunar777 said:
DM235 said:
killeryoshis said:

ARE YOU SERIOUS? You need a history lesson and know that LBP is a new IP

From what I've seen, most sequels sell the same or less than their predecessors, so I was expecting NSMBWii to be comparable to Super Mario Galaxy.  From that I've seen, there was more advertising for LBP.  NSMBWii is also introduces 4-player co-op play, for the first time in a Mario platformer, which I think makes it more like LBP than a previous Mario game (I am guessing a bit here since I have never played NSMBWii).  LBP also received higher review ratings.

Gears of War was a new IP and it sold very well.  

If there is some other "history lesson" I should know about, please care to educate me.

Want a history lesson? ok.

Mario Galaxy's sales are actually "dissapointing" for a main line Mario platformer, yes i am serious.

well how on earth is 8M+ is dissapointing sales wise?

Because Mario games usually sell in the range of 15~ 20 Million units, so these sales of NewSMBWii is inline of what Mario games usually sell, like what it is little sister NewSMB on the DS managed to sell.

 

So why LBP didn't do as good as NewMarioBros.Wii?? well there are several reasons really:

It is a new Ip: meaning the consumers don't have a past title or another game similar to it on the system to relate it to.

No brand recognition: who made the game? is it the most famous game developers and publishers on the market? or new developers who have no fame to carry the game on? this is related to the game being recognised by the consumers too.

But Gears of War sold well and LBP did't even if it is a new IP! so what gives? well: I haven't played the game but is it a FPS by any chance? because i heard it is all the rage this gen.

It was advertised: alot of games were advertised too, some of them become a sucsess and some not, IMO LBP was decent sales wise (stop comparing it to Mario,because it will look like a HUGE bomba compared to it, only few games match it sales wise)

Uhm, I think you need a history lesson.  Super Mario 64 sold 11.89 million on N64.  Super Mario Sunshine sold 6.68 million on GC.  And like you mentioned, Super Mario Galaxy has sold 8.29 million on the Wii (so far).  Although NSMB DS has sold well, it was on a handheld console, and I don't know if a fair comparison can be made to home consoles.

It is a new IP, but I don't think that if Sony releases LBP2 it would sell 20 million copies just because it is a sequel. 

LBP has Sony as its publisher, which is probably one of the most well known publishers.  And I don't know how much pull a developer has, since Rare made Halo and Viva Pinata, and the two are not exactly comparable in sales.  Have you ever bought (or not bought) a game because of the publisher / developer?

Assassins Creed was another new IP that was not a FPS and did very well.

If I was to summarize everyone's responses, are these the differences between a 3 million seller and a 20 million seller for a platformer?

-Mario in the game
-No "floaty" jumps
-Sequel (not new IP)
-Known developer
-Console known for genre
-Innovations in gameplay
-Appeal to all regions

Agree?  Disagree?



New Super Mario Bros Wii will likely attain a 10-25% lifetime attach rate on Wii...

The question is whether Wii gets to 120m or a bit more.

By the end of March 2010 Wii will be at 70.5m on 20m units shipped in April 2009-March 2010. Even with steep and annual 30% drops Wii is getting past 100m easy. You get to 114m that way before sales drop under 1m/year worldwide.

Based on low hw and a low attach rate the worst case scenario is probably 114 * 0.15 for NSMB Wii - 17m.

With even 20% declines and a 20% attach rate the situation is completely different. You'd get to 144m that way - and a slightly higher 20% attach rate would put NSMB Wii at 29m worldwide.

125m * 1/6 Wii owners buying NSMB Wii seems about right lifetime.

 

 

 

 

 



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

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I know I'll get flamed for this from the really dedicated fans, but when it comes down to it LBP just isn't that fun to play for most people. I think what the market most resonates with is that which caters to people's needs as consumers first, not what drives a medium forward.

I was a little mad 15 years ago when Tekken became more popular than Virtua Fighter, despite not having revolutionized the Fighting genre like VF did. But many years later I made peace with the fact Tekken was a lot more accessible, and to a lot of people, just more fun.

You can have it both ways, and it's been the case with a lot of games in history especially from Nintendo.. but LBP is more one than the other definitely IMO.



DM235 said:

Uhm, I think you need a history lesson.  Super Mario 64 sold 11.89 million on N64.  Super Mario Sunshine sold 6.68 million on GC.  And like you mentioned, Super Mario Galaxy has sold 8.29 million on the Wii (so far).  Although NSMB DS has sold well, it was on a handheld console, and I don't know if a fair comparison can be made to home consoles.

It is a new IP, but I don't think that if Sony releases LBP2 it would sell 20 million copies just because it is a sequel. 

LBP has Sony as its publisher, which is probably one of the most well known publishers.  And I don't know how much pull a developer has, since Rare made Halo and Viva Pinata, and the two are not exactly comparable in sales.  Have you ever bought (or not bought) a game because of the publisher / developer?

Assassins Creed was another new IP that was not a FPS and did very well.

If I was to summarize everyone's responses, are these the differences between a 3 million seller and a 20 million seller for a platformer?

-Mario in the game
-No "floaty" jumps
-Sequel (not new IP)
-Known developer
-Console known for genre
-Innovations in gameplay
-Appeal to all regions

Agree?  Disagree?

- Yes i know that the N64 and NGC and SMG don't have great sales compared to the other mario games actually, i was just mentioning SMG because it is on the same console as it is "squeal" NSMBWii (while i don't like refering to it as a squeal, because the two games play differently)

-But these games (SM64, SMS, SMG and i'll add it here too SMG2) don't have the same appeal as a Mario platformer on a 2D plane like the past games, believe me or not a 3D game is not as accesible as a 2D game, these have a huge appeal to consumers because of it is pretty simple mechanic(you just have to go from left to right), that's why when you check the VC why is SMB3(followed by SMB and SMW ithink?) are more downloaded than SM64? it isn't because it is considered the Best Mario game or it is a classic, because it has a simple mechanic that everyone can follow and it is the best the genre has to offer. (I like SMW the best though!)

Believe me being on a handheld or a console doesn't make a diffrence sales wise (see Mario Kart for example, it is a software monster)

So expect it before it happen: Super Mario Galaxy 2 will NEVER sell as well as NewSMBWii.

 

- and as for this Publisher thing: No acctually Sony is not a famous publisher, it is a famous hardware company with global brand recognition, but it is not associated with software that much, what games Sony owns that sold in the 10M+ range beside GT?

And i admit the developer part was not as important, actually only the hardcore gamers care about these things...(there is a light gun shooter on WiIWare that looks avarage and has the most generic graphic style out there, but it is developed by a Ninteno studio called Inteligent Systems which is my favorite Nintedo developers ever! so i want to check it out ><)

 

- Rare didn't make Halo as far as i know O_o

 

- AC's was a huge success, yes, and i honestly don't know exactly why, Obisoft is a known developer and the game might have gotten a push as ads go( i don't know really), but in the end some games are succesful and some aren't, not everthing on the market will be a succsess story.

 

If you ask me, i think Sony should have advertised the Sackboys as their new mascot or something, or make the game bundled with the hardware (like Wii Sports, to ensure it gets on the hands of as many people as possible), or the Sackboys are not as appealing as i though they are...

 

As for your last point, i kinda  agree, but not because LBP has floaty jumps O_o



^^^ This is what you get for blowing a rumor out of proportion

Chocobo brain damage!!! Here, drink this diet Coke..*runs*

Currently playing :

VC - Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen
Wii - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
DS - Glory of Heracels

LBP and NSMBWii, both are great.
LBP: I like to play Online on different fanmade levels ;o) The graphics & musics are great. There's one problem, the gameplay, sometimes, it's really good made, sometimes, you jump and jump but without success.
NSMBWii: If they could add a little bit of history, it could be better but the game is really fun. I love it.



People should stop to speak about LBP.

The reason why LBP did not sell as well as Mario is very very simple. Nobody care about LBP. That's as simple as that. It's not even a true platformer and the PS3 public is especially not directed towad this type of game.

But even on Wii it would have had even less success. People wants to play the true platformer, Mario.



DM235 said:

So you agree, it's a lot to do with Mario?  Have you played both?

I somewhat disagree with the library comment.  The PS3 does have it's share of quirky games (Buzz and EyePet come to mind).  To me it is still more of a jack-of-all-trades type console, with something for everyone. 

I don't think that NSMBWii has mindblowing innovations (just a great formula that works). 

My wife does not play video games.  However, when I showed her NSMB DS, she liked it, and she actually finished it.  When I showed her LBP, she also liked it and finished it. 

Do you think that people that don't normally play platformers would pick up a copy of NSMBWii?

What my thought process was that there is a similar percentage of gamers on each console who like to play platformers (maybe this was my error in judgement).  If a platformer was released on both the PS3 and the Wii, I would expect the Wii game to sell twice as much, given that is has roughly twice the marketshare (63 million vs 30 million).  Using this logic, NSMBWii should sell 6 million.

I cut your post up a bit, so you can see what parts of it I'm actually responding to.

Yes. I've played both, though not at length. But I think that in this case, it's not even relevant. The image the game has is more important than anything when it comes to sales.

And for the record, I don't think New Super Mario Bros. Wii does anything mindblowingly innovative either. But Super Mario Bros. did. That's the game that started the series and shot it up to stardom. It even made Mario more famous than Mickey Mouse. And that's the game Little Big Planet would have to outdo in terms of innovation to reach the same iconic status.

The Playstation 3 has some quirky but fun games. But take a quick look at the top 50 best sold games for it. In the quirky but fun category you'll find two Guitar Hero games, a ratchet and clank game (which is so focused on weapons I'm not really sure it belongs there) and Little Big Planet. Then take a look at the Wii top 5. Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, Mario Kart Wii and Wii Play. It's just a completely different type of games that make up the stuff people buy on the Wii. Because, I believe, the image of why you want a wii is different, the games people buy on the console is different. There are very few people that bought a PS3 to play Buzz, Little Big Planet or Ratchet and Clank. There are millions who bought the Wii for Wii Sports and Mario Kart Wii. It's a huge difference, and it makes a huge difference for sales of respective types of games on the consoles.

Same with your wife. She loves Little Big Planet, but she wouldn't think that experience was available on the PS3, so she wouldn't buy it. If she told her friends about it they'd probably shake their head and not believe her. It would be a completely different story with New Super Mario Bros. Wii. because the Wii's image is completely different.

I'd think that it's not as much about which console has the most amount of platform lovers (though I'd suspect the Wii would have a much higher percentage) but a case of which console has the most people that use it to play local multiplayer games with their friends and family. Using that logic, New Super Mario Bros. Wii would sell around equal to Mario Kart or Wii Sports (without bundles), while Little Big Planet only has the PS3 Guitar Hero and possibly Ratchet and Clank crowd to draw on.

 

I hope that you get my reasoning. It isn't all that much about the games, but the marketing.



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