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Forums - Sony Discussion - Will sony make the biggest turn around in gaming history?!?!?!

@NeoRatt

1. Yes, at the moment yes they are.
2. Time, big hitters, wait and see
3. Shows you just don't like the Wii. Those games were in development before console success was known, they are based on last gen success. The Wii should get better support in the near future.
4. I'll bet you Austria doesn't :P
5. *Insert personal bias, numbers larger than thou, NO U type argument*



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TO say the first year of complete competition is meaning less is absolutely absurd, it is roughly 20% of the time of this generation
second, games like metal gear solid, and final fantasy for the past decade haven't had to sell hardware, they've always just been released to a large installed base
grand theft auto? people are going to buy a console for a multiplatform game?
as long as the 360 is cheaper it will do more for the 360.
killzone 2 moving hardware just seems ridiculous, I know I'm interested in the game, but I liked the fist killzone and actually think it is one of the but seriously it just wasn't that big of a seller released in the systems prime, why would killzone 2 become this magic machine mover, it looks nice and it will probably play well but that doesn't mean much
and finally 2008 as this rallying year for the ps3 makes no sense, all of sony's card are on the table, we don't know what nintendo and microsoft have ready and frankly unless in turns around soon third parties aren't going to keep throwing support at the ps3 just because it has a brand name on it.
one final thing,
basically everyone knows what is going to show up on the ps3



I HAVE A DOUBLE DRAGON CAB IN MY KITCHEN!!!!!!

NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Realistically the answer to the question is no. No Sony is not going to turn around they still are not making a significantly stronger option, and the media player argument is only getting murkier. Further more for development purposes their competitors make far greater pitches.

The Wii is the cheapest console on the market. That will lead to a higher adoption rate over the short term. The 360 has the highest software attach rate based on NPD numbers. So both those consoles are number one in different ways. They are also relatively close in hardware sales as of late. You can argue both are quite healthy. A new price on the PS3 is not going to change that.

Sony on the other hand has the most expensive machine, and falls halfway between the other two in the attach rate. Further more the system is third in library quality. That is very much a given since even the Sony boosters fixate on next year rather then this year. So they really have nothing to offer consumers other then the name and a sale.

Ironically given the sales of games I see developers falling into two camps. They are going to develop their low end titles towards the Wii. Which basically prevents porting to the PS3. They are going to develop their high end games for the 360 to make use of the hardcore gaming market with that great attach rate. Finally the PS3 will get ports from the 360, but little in the way of exclusive support.

You can paint a rosy picture of the PS3 right now if you like, but the console is on the knifes edge. BluRay must see serious adoption this holiday season. Further more it must not lose to HD-DVD. The PS3 must see a significant increase in sales compared to their rivals. Otherwise they will permanently lose some developer support.

Honestly there is no justifiable reason to believe that Sony is going to see a turn around. Further more if they somehow manage to steal sales from the other consoles if it is in the least bit threatening. Well those manufacturers can easily afford to increase the value of their offerings, and with their better qualities we would return to the status quo that much faster.



SeriousWB said:

@NeoRatt

1. Yes, at the moment yes they are.
2. Time, big hitters, wait and see
3. Shows you just don't like the Wii. Those games were in development before console success was known, they are based on last gen success. The Wii should get better support in the near future.
4. I'll bet you Austria doesn't :P
5. *Insert personal bias, numbers larger than thou, NO U type argument*


I am tired of Wii owners who take insult to facts... My post was short on opinion and based on facts from a well respected web site and attach rates that are known to be factual.  Tear it apart based on facts, not some stupid attack just because you can't face the facts.

I have a Wii and I like it a lot...  But, I am also a gamer that likes great games period.  The Wii hasn't got a lot of great games...  I rented a bunch of sub-70% Wii games and they are very deserving of their ratings (more so then 360 and PS3 games rated that low).

I play my 360 the most (buy all multi-platform games for it because they tend to rate higher), Wii second (When family and friends are over this is the console to play plus the Mario related games are very excellent), and PS3 third (Has some good games, but it needs work - which is supposed to come next year)...  So, just because I make a comment that doesn't put the Wii on top does not mean that I am biased against it...  That is the problem with the Wii bandwagon.  Many Wii owners are so sensitive that they can't read and understand facts...

Wii will go down in history as a very successful console system that brought in a new class of casual, social gaming to the home and will be seen as an inflection point that brought gaming more into the mainstream of modern society and not just a nerdy thing to do as it has been in the past.  It will also go down as the console that started the "interface" revolution where many different types of controllers were created and become an intergal part of future generations.

Unfortunately, Wii does not have the power to build the kind of hardcore gameplay, immersive environments, graphics, and AI, that hard core gamers expect in games such as Gears, Halo 3, Resistance, Ratchet & Clank, Virtua Fighter 5, BioShock, Stranglehold, and soon to be UT III, Haze, Drake: Unchartered, Assasin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.  That being said, MP3 was a great effort and by LastGen standards it would have been considered cream of the crop.  But, that was lastgen and we are in the current NextGen which takes things to a much higher level...



Soriku said:
Dodece said:
Realistically the answer to the question is no. No Sony is not going to turn around they still are not making a significantly stronger option, and the media player argument is only getting murkier. Further more for development purposes their competitors make far greater pitches.

The Wii is the cheapest console on the market. That will lead to a higher adoption rate over the short term. The 360 has the highest software attach rate based on NPD numbers. So both those consoles are number one in different ways. They are also relatively close in hardware sales as of late. You can argue both are quite healthy. A new price on the PS3 is not going to change that.

Sony on the other hand has the most expensive machine, and falls halfway between the other two in the attach rate. Further more the system is third in library quality. That is very much a given since even the Sony boosters fixate on next year rather then this year. So they really have nothing to offer consumers other then the name and a sale.

Ironically given the sales of games I see developers falling into two camps. They are going to develop their low end titles towards the Wii. Which basically prevents porting to the PS3. They are going to develop their high end games for the 360 to make use of the hardcore gaming market with that great attach rate. Finally the PS3 will get ports from the 360, but little in the way of exclusive support.

You can paint a rosy picture of the PS3 right now if you like, but the console is on the knifes edge. BluRay must see serious adoption this holiday season. Further more it must not lose to HD-DVD. The PS3 must see a significant increase in sales compared to their rivals. Otherwise they will permanently lose some developer support.

Honestly there is no justifiable reason to believe that Sony is going to see a turn around. Further more if they somehow manage to steal sales from the other consoles if it is in the least bit threatening. Well those manufacturers can easily afford to increase the value of their offerings, and with their better qualities we would return to the status quo that much faster.


Yes, and MH3 and Fatal Frame IV are coming to the 360 and will be ported to the PS3 as well >_> No, what they will do sooner or later is give their high-end games (main series) to the Wii and PS3 and 360 get whatever else they wish they feel they need to put on it.


I think it is much simpler than that ...

Being that publishers already have so much invested in the PS3, XBox 360 and PC (as well as their need to prepare for the next generation) publishers will always be developing games for the PS3, XBox 360 and PC. The problem will be that they will probably devote similar ammounts of resources (money) towards Wii development as to what is going to PS3, XBox 360 and PC combined.

The lower development cost for the Wii will ensure that it will see far more games released in a certain timeframe, and that these games will be much more original than the games on the XBox 360 or PS3. What this means is that the Guitar Heros, Katamaris and Grand Theft Auto ('small' games that become popular overnight) will be released exclusively for the Wii.

The 90% of gamers who didn't buy Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Halo, Gran Turismo, and so on will probably gravitate towards the Wii because it will have the most 'fun' games ...



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NeoRatt said:
SeriousWB said:

@NeoRatt

1. Yes, at the moment yes they are.
2. Time, big hitters, wait and see
3. Shows you just don't like the Wii. Those games were in development before console success was known, they are based on last gen success. The Wii should get better support in the near future.
4. I'll bet you Austria doesn't :P
5. *Insert personal bias, numbers larger than thou, NO U type argument*


I am tired of Wii owners who take insult to facts... My post was short on opinion and based on facts from a well respected web site and attach rates that are known to be factual.  Tear it apart based on facts, not some stupid attack just because you can't face the facts.

I have a Wii and I like it a lot...  But, I am also a gamer that likes great games period.  The Wii hasn't got a lot of great games...  I rented a bunch of sub-70% Wii games and they are very deserving of their ratings (more so then 360 and PS3 games rated that low).

I play my 360 the most (buy all multi-platform games for it because they tend to rate higher), Wii second (When family and friends are over this is the console to play plus the Mario related games are very excellent), and PS3 third (Has some good games, but it needs work - which is supposed to come next year)...  So, just because I make a comment that doesn't put the Wii on top does not mean that I am biased against it...  That is the problem with the Wii bandwagon.  Many Wii owners are so sensitive that they can't read and understand facts...

Wii will go down in history as a very successful console system that brought in a new class of casual, social gaming to the home and will be seen as an inflection point that brought gaming more into the mainstream of modern society and not just a nerdy thing to do as it has been in the past.  It will also go down as the console that started the "interface" revolution where many different types of controllers were created and become an intergal part of future generations.

Unfortunately, Wii does not have the power to build the kind of hardcore gameplay, immersive environments, graphics, and AI, that hard core gamers expect in games such as Gears, Halo 3, Resistance, Ratchet & Clank, Virtua Fighter 5, BioShock, Stranglehold, and soon to be UT III, Haze, Drake: Unchartered, Assasin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.  That being said, MP3 was a great effort and by LastGen standards it would have been considered cream of the crop.  But, that was lastgen and we are in the current NextGen which takes things to a much higher level...


I really have to disagree with this ... Bioshock is (by far) the best game released this generation in terms of immersive environments and all it really is, is System Shock 2 (from 1999) with pretty graphics.

For the most part, the entire FPS genre hasn't really developed much from games like Half-Life, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Counter Strike, Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. This genre has been stagnant for almost a decade even though processing power has gone up by more than 100 times. The same can be said about most genres ...

There are (obviously) some people who are thrilled that racing games now model differentials, and cornering is slightly more realistic, but for the most part people are craving something new ... which hasn't been provided by either the PS3 or XBox 360



Aside from Graphics... and some control schemes i'd say FPS haven't been improved at all. Why the heck arn't bots a FPS standard?

All three systems are powerful enough to support a good Bot AI in ATLEAST local multiplayer. Sometimes you just wanna play vs your friend with a bunch of random grunts thrown in. Or with your friend 2 on 10.

Nothin was more fun in Perfect Dark then going all action Hero on a bunch of low level bots with Grenades and properly set up labtop guns.

It seems like whenever a FPS comes out with a great new addition... nobody copies it. So your left with a bunch of incomplete shooters instead of one that incorporates it all and is a complete awesome one.

I mean... just rip each other off guys. It's fine. We understand.



Also. The 360 and PS3 will always get the BIG triple A games... because it's easier to impress people with graphics then gameplay. Cause you can hype up graphics with screen shots. While gameplay can't really hype someone up until it's in hand.

I think that's why so many people use cutscenes... which I think we're well beyond technologically, as the graphics are kickass enough without them... and they break imerson... and take up time and money that far outstripe their worth.



LOL

The editorial is another Sony fanboy post, only original in that it's hosted on a pro site.

Sony wins for one week and suddenly it's the biggest turnaround in gaming history?



HappySqurriel said:
NeoRatt said:
SeriousWB said:

@NeoRatt

...


...

Unfortunately, Wii does not have the power to build the kind of hardcore gameplay, immersive environments, graphics, and AI, that hard core gamers expect in games such as Gears, Halo 3, Resistance, Ratchet & Clank, Virtua Fighter 5, BioShock, Stranglehold, and soon to be UT III, Haze, Drake: Unchartered, Assasin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.  That being said, MP3 was a great effort and by LastGen standards it would have been considered cream of the crop.  But, that was lastgen and we are in the current NextGen which takes things to a much higher level...


I really have to disagree with this ... Bioshock is (by far) the best game released this generation in terms of immersive environments and all it really is, is System Shock 2 (from 1999) with pretty graphics.

For the most part, the entire FPS genre hasn't really developed much from games like Half-Life, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Counter Strike, Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. This genre has been stagnant for almost a decade even though processing power has gone up by more than 100 times. The same can be said about most genres ...

There are (obviously) some people who are thrilled that racing games now model differentials, and cornering is slightly more realistic, but for the most part people are craving something new ... which hasn't been provided by either the PS3 or XBox 360


There is a lot different about games this generation then in previous generations...  You stated the obvious graphics...  But there is a lot more to them then that.

1) Games are getting better and better AI.  The enemies move in many more complex ways then they did in previous generations, and they make better overall decisions which require a lot more processing then previous generations.  Especially, as you up the difficulty.  There is still lots of room for improvement but there has been a lot of improvements made.

2) Free roaming environments that have more then one solution to the problems.  In almost all past generation games, you go through the levels in a very linear method and it was really the only way.  Good modern generation games have more then one solution so you can finish the game in many different ways.  Look at games like Crackdown where you could approach in almost any way, or BioShock where you can destroy bad guys using many different methods.

3) Size and varied environments.  Games may not be getting larger in time required to complete them but environments in Halo 3 and Resistance are massive compare to past generations.  Those massive environments are much more detailed and are no longer confined to small room levels in dungeons.  Warthogs, planes, hovercrafts, races, etc. are changing games from just FPS to FPS + Driving + Flying etc.  Hence the comments that each Halo 3 chapter is larger then the entire Halo 2 game.  Again, future generations will continue to grow on this theme.

4) Weapons, Characters, and permutations.  Good next gen games have many more weapon choices, characters and permutations that affect everything from the speed you travel at, to the damage levels, to using the right tool for the task.  In previous generations there was some of this but in games like BioShock, Halo 3, and Ratchet & Clank you are beginning to really see substantial differences and results based on equipment and character choices.

5) Environment Interaction.  More and more, games are allowing you to interact more and more with the environment you are playing in...  Stranglehold for example allows you to slide, glide, roll, tumble on, and destroy almost everything that you would expect to do in reality.  I don't think Stranglehold is the best game out there, but it is really showing the level to which you will be interacting with the environment going forward.

I don't think that we have seen everything this generation will offer yet, and many developers are just starting to understand what they can do in games this generation.  The first year to two years have been about discovery.  As new games like MGS, Too Human, Gears 2, BioShock 2, Resistance 2, GTA IV, etc. come out they will send things to a new level that quite simply will not be achievable on a Wii.