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Forums - Sales Discussion - So how bad exactly is sony doing????

Bitmap Frogs on 23 July 2009
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
From the corporation side of things, they are in deep shit.

From the user perspective, there's never been a loser console with a bigger portfolio of games.

So that's the skinny of it.

Kinda like Sega when they had the Dreamcast out?

Sort of, but the Dreamcast got canned and Sega shutdown their hardware operations, something that won't happen with Sony and the ps3,

Isn't it just as likely that Sony will be forced into the same situation that Sega was forced into?

 

Well, remember the Dreamcast was the second mishap in a row for Sega. If Sega could survive the Saturn, Sony can definitely survive the ps3. If the ps4 turns out to be a booboo as well, we'll see. 





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

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Squilliam on 23 July 2009
Procrastinato said:

 

I have never bought into the "XBox 360 is not the majority of EDD" theory, to explain away the losses, personally.  The Zune is peanuts, in comparison to the 360 and its incoming/outgoing revenue, and as you stated, Windows Mobile is a non-factor, since it basically breaks even.  All the PC accessories (keyboards, mice, and MS sells a LOT of them at profit) are included in EDD as well, I believe, and that's a pretty hefty chunk of income.  So then... without the supporting factor of the accessories (which likely far outweigh the losses incurred by Zune), what is MS doing to put them in the red?  Is the X360 incurring losses?  As I said, I suspect serious R&D, which doesn't bode well for the X360's lifespan.

I believe Microsoft is continually spending a load of R&D money, not just $150M in one chunk -- I don't understand your basis for that theory at all.

The gist of it is this. The Xbox 360 comprises a large proportion of the revenue in the EDD but reading between the lines with their statements over many years gives a pretty similar and large proportion for Xbox 360 revenue, however Xbox 360 specific liabilities are a fraction of the whole. Something else is chewing through the profit on the Xbox 360s. To me that something is likely to be the other named operations in the division as well as the named/unnamed R+D projects. The fact that they are doing R+D to a significant degree doesn't mean anything for the Xbox 360s lifespan, because we simply don't know what it applies to.

Now non Xbox 360 related revenue fell 42% for the year. Since the Zune isn't big enough it implies that the only other big product, Windows mobile is losing money as thats the only other product with overall revenues high enough to cause problems. So I would say that Windows mobile is almost certainly losing money at this point as Microsoft fights to compete in the mobile space with increased investment whilst revenue itself is declining. Windows mobile broke even before they combined it with the division and soon after they significantly increased the resources of that unit.

Named projects which are liabilities at this point:

  • Natal (Windows/Xbox 360 versions)
  • Surface
  • Windows mobile + Windows mobile 7 development
  • Zune HD + Zune
  • 1st party development for the last few quarters at least is probably losing money.

As for unnamed projects, im sure they have many which never see the light of day. Btw, that $150M chunk was a one off charge which explained why they were unprofitable last quarter.



Tease.

Squilliam on 23 July 2009

Oh yeah:

Sony is doing badly in the sense that their business strategy with the PS1/PS2 has come up to naught. They cut the price of the PS1/PS2 severely in an attempt to gain massive market share and drive the competition out of the market. So now that the competition is stronger than ever, and is infact in a stronger position relative to them, means that the cost to them is also in the profits forgone in the previous two generations pursuing this strategy.



Tease.

piningforthefjords on 23 July 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
From the corporation side of things, they are in deep shit.

From the user perspective, there's never been a loser console with a bigger portfolio of games.

So that's the skinny of it.

Kinda like Sega when they had the Dreamcast out?

Sort of, but the Dreamcast got canned and Sega shutdown their hardware operations, something that won't happen with Sony and the ps3,

Isn't it just as likely that Sony will be forced into the same situation that Sega was forced into?

 

Well, remember the Dreamcast was the second mishap in a row for Sega. If Sega could survive the Saturn, Sony can definitely survive the ps3. If the ps4 turns out to be a booboo as well, we'll see. 

PSP Go, anyone? Doesn't that count as a mishap? Besides, I don't think either the Saturn or the Dreamcast hurt Sega nearly as badly as the PS3 has hurt Sony. PS3's probably done more damage to Sony than Dreamcast and Saturn COMBINED did to Sega.



Blubeard on 23 July 2009

What about the ps3 slim? Do you guys think it will be announced at gamescom?



My name is blubeard because rosie has a blue beard. Just not on her chest.

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Viper1 on 23 July 2009
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
From the corporation side of things, they are in deep shit.

From the user perspective, there's never been a loser console with a bigger portfolio of games.

So that's the skinny of it.

Kinda like Sega when they had the Dreamcast out?

Sort of, but the Dreamcast got canned and Sega shutdown their hardware operations, something that won't happen with Sony and the ps3,

Isn't it just as likely that Sony will be forced into the same situation that Sega was forced into?

 

Well, remember the Dreamcast was the second mishap in a row for Sega. If Sega could survive the Saturn, Sony can definitely survive the ps3. If the ps4 turns out to be a booboo as well, we'll see. 

PSP Go, anyone? Doesn't that count as a mishap? Besides, I don't think either the Saturn or the Dreamcast hurt Sega nearly as badly as the PS3 has hurt Sony. PS3's probably done more damage to Sony than Dreamcast and Saturn COMBINED did to Sega.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Legend11 on 24 July 2009
bonkers555 said:
Hard to tell. When you are the #1 gaming console for over a decade and suddenly being dead last this gen and losing billions of dollars it can't get any worse. Can only go up from here.


That pretty much sums up the entire thread.  Anyone that thinks Sony is doing well has obviously been slowly acclimated to the current situation that Sony is in.  Imagine a Sony fanboy from 2004 being shown the current situation Sony is in, they likely would be in complete shock.



piningforthefjords on 24 July 2009
CGI-Quality said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
piningforthefjords said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
From the corporation side of things, they are in deep shit.

From the user perspective, there's never been a loser console with a bigger portfolio of games.

So that's the skinny of it.

Kinda like Sega when they had the Dreamcast out?

Sort of, but the Dreamcast got canned and Sega shutdown their hardware operations, something that won't happen with Sony and the ps3,

Isn't it just as likely that Sony will be forced into the same situation that Sega was forced into?

 

Well, remember the Dreamcast was the second mishap in a row for Sega. If Sega could survive the Saturn, Sony can definitely survive the ps3. If the ps4 turns out to be a booboo as well, we'll see. 

PSP Go, anyone? Doesn't that count as a mishap? Besides, I don't think either the Saturn or the Dreamcast hurt Sega nearly as badly as the PS3 has hurt Sony. PS3's probably done more damage to Sony than Dreamcast and Saturn COMBINED did to Sega.

Sega didn't have the kind of resources that Sony does. This is why Sega is no longer a hardware manufacturer. Seems you have lots to learn.

Sony's losing money from ALL their divisions, not just gaming. They have a lot more in common with Sega than you care to admit.



couchmonkey on 24 July 2009


For those comparing PS3 to N64...Nintendo lost roughly 30-40% of their customers per generation from NES to GameCube and managed to remain profitable almost the entire time.  As of today Sony has lost over 75% of its customers and a few billion dollars in one generation.  Those numbers will improve a little before the generation ends, but it will easily be the biggest generation-to-generation drop any popular console maker has seen since Genesis to Saturn...maybe even further back than that!

Sony isn't "doomed" but to consider PS3 anything but a business failure is crazzy.



Procrastinato on 24 July 2009
piningforthefjords said:
CGI-Quality said:
piningforthefjords said:

PSP Go, anyone? Doesn't that count as a mishap? Besides, I don't think either the Saturn or the Dreamcast hurt Sega nearly as badly as the PS3 has hurt Sony. PS3's probably done more damage to Sony than Dreamcast and Saturn COMBINED did to Sega.

Sega didn't have the kind of resources that Sony does. This is why Sega is no longer a hardware manufacturer. Seems you have lots to learn.

Sony's losing money from ALL their divisions, not just gaming. They have a lot more in common with Sega than you care to admit.

Sorry... where on the latest financial reports, is SCE in the red, at the bottom line again?

Also, how is the PSP Go a flop, before its even released again?  I think you're painting your own picture of what's going on here, bud, and the sky in your world just isn't the right shade of blue, if you get my meaning.

You're making stuff up to serve some wierd anti-Sony purpose, it seems.  I can understand the "Sony is just now turning around, and that's always scary" argument (that you haven't made), and the "Sony hasn't done too well, relative to its competition" argument (which isn't the subject of this thread), but you're making no sense whatsoever with your comments.  You're just making stuff up, and pretending its true.