Another thread like this. When you're top dog for years in the gaming industry but suddenly drop to last, it takes a toll. :-/ Not as good as they should be doing. Main factor for a lot of people is the price.
Everyone needs to play Lost Odyssey! Any opposition to this and I will have to just say, "If it's a fight you want, you got it!"
| Gamerace said: PS2 didn't sell better than Wii, it's got 2x's the sales now because it's been out for 11 years. Wii has been breaking all of PS2 sales records since it launched so that DVD argument doesn't hold water. How bad is Sony doing? Stuck in last since launch with no sign of a turnaround (2010 will be it's best year so if it's ever going to happen, it'll be then) Still losing money on each PS3 sold (as far as anyone can tell) Sales of PS2, PSP, PS3 all down from last year. 360's are up. On the flip side. PS3 is NOT a failure sales wise. It's doing better than Xbox or GC did and against stiffer competition with much higher pricing. It has a lot of life left, most of it at lower price points. It's game line up next year is fantastic. It will likely remain last this gen but finish with good numbers in a tight race with 360 but probably be an overall huge net loss for Sony financially, but it did win the HD format war so who knows what that's worth. |
PS2 have years that it sold more than 22 million. something the wii it did not do,
the DS did though but just last year sold around 30?
Squilliam said:
* How is the PSP on a major upswing when the sales are down considerably YOY? * How does that indicate good fortunes for the division as it has been propping up the PS3 somewhat and the hardware/software sales for this platform are disappearing off the map? *Are they even likely to hit 45nm on both the RSX and Cell when they have never done both chips at the same time? Furthermore its likely the royalty payments rather than the chip manufacturing costs which are hurting them at this time. Chip shrinks are over-rated anyway, for example you can buy a 250mm^2 8800GT with 512mb of ram for close to $100 after newegg margins, shipping, packaging, board partner costs/margins, TSMCs margins and Nvidias ~30% margins on the chip itself. The chips are cheap, its the I.P. which is expensive. *So is the Xbox 360 and Wii. * That significant number quantified into actual dollar terms is worth what exactly? How exactly are Microsoft in worse shape than Sony? Their total Xbox Live paid downloads are up 73% YOY, their gold membership are pulling in over half a billion annually and their royalties from software shipments are increasing substantially too. How exactly is SCE in a 'peachy' condition when their primary home console still loses money to this day and is being propped up by the good work they did last generation? Thats 'loses money to this day in spite of software revenue from consoles sold'
|
Squilliam, you sound like you don't agree that the basic premise of making money from the console market is: sell the base hardware at cost (or close to), sell software and accessories for profit.
If you didn't agree with this point, that might explain why you think the PSP is not doing well, despite the colossal number of publishers announcing big titles for it over the past 6 months. You might not understand why having big exclusives coming down the pipe is a big deal. Remember I'm not comparing Sony to MS and Nintendo. I'm stating that they are not doing badly, from an absolute perspective.
Disagreeing with the make-money-from-software-and-accessories viewpoint would be an.. uncommon stance, but you might be able to explain your PoV to us, and help us understand your stance better?
I mentioned MS as being in worse shape, since their profits were quite low in the last quarter -- the holiday quarter even, despite selling colossal numbers of X360s and software over the holidays. That says, to me, that the next few quarters are not likely to look "peachy" for MS, since they are, apparently, either losing money on hardware hand-over-fist, or more likely, they are doing some serious R&D investment, that will hurt their bottom line in the short-term. Its not gloom and doom for MS gaming -- we're talking short term here. They aren't going to have the software profits to look good this coming quarter (or two), and I think we're likely to see that as a lot of red on the report, thanks to whatever it was that hurt their holiday profits last quarter probably continuing to exist. If its selling hardware at a loss that's hurting them, then perhaps we won't see them dip as much... but is that good for the gaming division, as a profitable unit, when the PS3 perhaps has a cut coming soon, and MS matching the cut would then be... perilous, in the eyes of the common stockholder? I hope its not hardware that's costing them, and if its not, we should see a lot of red for the next couple quarters, as I stated.
At least, I hope its short term. It should be, right? Kinda sounds like I hurt your feelings when I stated my opinion about MS. Sorry bud, that's just how I see it. I'm not an investment pro or anything, so probably my statement is somehow misinformed or just plain wrong. You should enlighten me if you can, though -- I like to learn as much as the next guy.
EDIT: I feel like I just went through some sort of time loop there... haven't the FY 2009 Q4 reports already come out, and, indeed, Sony's Computer Entertainment division was in the black for Q4 (not by much, but black nonetheless), while MS's E&D dipped into the red, with a big dropoff from the holidays? Just as I stated, then...
I'm gonna have to call repeat for this quarter, except with more black for Sony, and more red for MS. MS is spending money on something big. Natal? What else could eat up all those X360 software and Live profits? A new console? If so, MS has basically thrown in the towel for this gen, to the Wii, and will not recover their investment easily, or at all.
Squilliam said:
* How is the PSP on a major upswing when the sales are down considerably YOY? * How does that indicate good fortunes for the division as it has been propping up the PS3 somewhat and the hardware/software sales for this platform are disappearing off the map? *Are they even likely to hit 45nm on both the RSX and Cell when they have never done both chips at the same time? Furthermore its likely the royalty payments rather than the chip manufacturing costs which are hurting them at this time. Chip shrinks are over-rated anyway, for example you can buy a 250mm^2 8800GT with 512mb of ram for close to $100 after newegg margins, shipping, packaging, board partner costs/margins, TSMCs margins and Nvidias ~30% margins on the chip itself. The chips are cheap, its the I.P. which is expensive. *So is the Xbox 360 and Wii. * That significant number quantified into actual dollar terms is worth what exactly? How exactly are Microsoft in worse shape than Sony? Their total Xbox Live paid downloads are up 73% YOY, their gold membership are pulling in over half a billion annually and their royalties from software shipments are increasing substantially too. How exactly is SCE in a 'peachy' condition when their primary home console still loses money to this day and is being propped up by the good work they did last generation? Thats 'loses money to this day in spite of software revenue from consoles sold'
|
This.
| ajaghvajagh said: It's doing normal to slightly bad, BUT keeping in mind its the most expensive console and it's only trailing 15-25k/week to the the 360 which has consoles upto $200 cheaper I'd say the 360 is in a bit more trouble than PS3 (or will be soon) |
Not really. It doesn't matter that the 360 is only ahead by 15-25k a week or that it's cheaper as
1. its ahead
2. both consoles have sold more than 2nd and 3rd did in their entire lifetime last gen
so they are doing well with regards to sales but the problem is making a profit. The 360 is and continuing to do better YoY with amazing software sales and XBL charges but as you reminded us the PS3 is the most expensive console and still a loss for sony and down YoY with good software sales that could be better.
The reasons you listed as why the PS3 is doing fine and the 360 is in trouble actually work for the 360 and against the PS3.
I'd say the PS3 is in a bit of trouble and 360 is fine.
Xoj said:
PS2 have years that it sold more than 22 million. something the wii it did not do, the DS did though but just last year sold around 30? |
PS2 had 1 single year above 22 million shipped. 2003 - 22.5 million.
Wii last year shipped almost 26 million and have projected to do the same this year.
The rEVOLution is not being televised
| Procrastinato said: Squilliam, you sound like you don't agree that the basic premise of making money from the console market is: sell the base hardware at cost (or close to), sell software and accessories for profit. If you didn't agree with this point, that might explain why you think the PSP is not doing well, despite the colossal number of publishers announcing big titles for it over the past 6 months. You might not understand why having big exclusives coming down the pipe is a big deal. Remember I'm not comparing Sony to MS and Nintendo. I'm stating that they are not doing badly, from an absolute perspective. Disagreeing with the make-money-from-software-and-accessories viewpoint would be an.. uncommon stance, but you might be able to explain your PoV to us, and help us understand your stance better? I mentioned MS as being in worse shape, since their profits were quite low in the last quarter -- the holiday quarter even, despite selling colossal numbers of X360s and software over the holidays. That says, to me, that the next few quarters are not likely to look "peachy" for MS, since they are, apparently, either losing money on hardware hand-over-fist, or more likely, they are doing some serious R&D investment, that will hurt their bottom line in the short-term. Its not gloom and doom for MS gaming -- we're talking short term here. They aren't going to have the software profits to look good this coming quarter (or two), and I think we're likely to see that as a lot of red on the report, thanks to whatever it was that hurt their holiday profits last quarter probably continuing to exist. If its selling hardware at a loss that's hurting them, then perhaps we won't see them dip as much... but is that good for the gaming division, as a profitable unit, when the PS3 perhaps has a cut coming soon, and MS matching the cut would then be... perilous, in the eyes of the common stockholder? I hope its not hardware that's costing them, and if its not, we should see a lot of red for the next couple quarters, as I stated. At least, I hope its short term. It should be, right? Kinda sounds like I hurt your feelings when I stated my opinion about MS. Sorry bud, that's just how I see it. I'm not an investment pro or anything, so probably my statement is somehow misinformed or just plain wrong. You should enlighten me if you can, though -- I like to learn as much as the next guy.
EDIT: I feel like I just went through some sort of time loop there... haven't the FY 2009 Q4 reports already come out, and, indeed, Sony's Computer Entertainment division was in the black for Q4 (not by much, but black nonetheless), while MS's E&D dipped into the red, with a big dropoff from the holidays? Just as I stated, then... I'm gonna have to call repeat for this quarter, except with more black for Sony, and more red for MS. MS is spending money on something big. Natal? What else could eat up all those X360 software and Live profits? A new console? If so, MS has basically thrown in the towel for this gen, to the Wii, and will not recover their investment easily, or at all. |
The PSPs sales are down considerably thats all I was looking at. I didn't compare it to the DS, its doing poorly relative to how its performed in the past. I have my doubts that the games will substantially increase the sales of the device because from the information I have games have sold poorly overall on the system and its getting greater competition from the iPhone and iTouch and their clones for the significant multimedia functions which make up a large proportion of its selling proposition to consumers.
The old razor/blades model isn't something im challenging.
Where im coming from in relation to the Xbox 360 is this:
The Xbox 360 Arcade breaks even with accessories -> quoted from someone in Microsofts senior management.
We are going for 2nd place in this generation -> paraphrased again from Microsoft management
Looking at the financial statements and reading between the lines I have seen nothing which implies that the Xbox 360 operations are anything but profitable by a healthy margin. So if one took the idea that the Arcade breaks even with accessories it means that the variable costs involved in shipping a single Arcade console to market last year were very close to breaking even. Im not counting advertising, R+D or anything like that, just the cost of the machine from factory to shelf on its own. So if they chose, they could probably cut the prices down quite considerably once more as the difference in cost between the Arcade and the Premium aren't excessive as it is essentially just a HDD unit which seperates the two and that would cost no more than $40 all up.
EDD is a slush fund, its got the barely profitable Windows Mobile which may very well be losing money now thanks to the iPhone and increased investment, Zune HD fixed costs, Natal development costs plus related aquisitions of I.P, The Zune is definately losing money, actually the whole thing is one big research and development pit of named and unnamed projects. I doubt that any of this however will dictate their choices in relation to the Xbox 360 hardware platform. They probably have the best revenue model in the industry, they can afford to lose quite a bit on hardware upfront if it means they can recoup an average of $20 per year per console for the next 5 or so years along with any applicable game and download revenue.
The EDD dropped into the red on a one off charge of $150M and SCE being in the black by $4M or so was essentially an accounting trick to make the division look better, well that was my take on it anyway. Theres development for a new console, perhaps as there always is, however the really serious outlays are for I.P etc which only gets paid in large quantities close to the release of a new generation console.
You didn't hurt my feelings, I secretly have a passionate relationship with my PS3, I play Flower and it makes me feel so good! 
Tease.
cool
wait who has sold more xbox 360 or ps3
The Wii.
Why do people always ignore the Wii?
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