By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - If You Could Ask God ONE QUESTION

Louie on 28 March 2009
mmnin said:

Oh and 1+1=0 when dealing with the group Z = {0,1} Math actually has all kinds of relative cases where our standard "logic" is no longer valid. Certainly most of what we use is still based somewhere on established principles but that does not have to be the case either.

 

sorry.  had to say it. lol.  And if you notice standard logic here fits very well with the discription that I gave earlier.

 

Err no Then you are talking about Z + Z = 0 in which case z = 0 that's all

If z = 1 then Z + Z = 2. Still the same.

You're only using a group Z = (0,1) for calculations when you don't know what z is. But we're talking about a variable here which still follows the logic of basic math



Around the Network
Louie on 28 March 2009

I don't think spirituality is necessary actually. But philosophy is important. Without dreams and ideas our society can't move forward.



tombi123 on 28 March 2009
WessleWoggle said:
tombi123 said:

 

 

 

Actually you're wrong. The universe isn't pre-determined, it is a probability wave/function. That is, you can only give a possibility percentage that a given event will happen, not an absolute answer. This is due to Heisenburg's (spelling?) Uncertainty Principle, which isn't just a limitation because of the apparatus used to measure the experiment. The Uncertainty Principle is 'built in' to the 'fabric' of space-time.

A good example is Nuclear Decay. It is completely random. You can only give a probability percentage for when a nucleus will decay. It has no cause.

The fact that we can't see a cause don't mean it isn't caused.

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

 

 

True. I should have put 'seems to have no cause'. Although because of the absence of evidence, the logical view is always the skeptical view, ie, it has (seems to have) no cause. Much like the the existence of God. There is no evidence for the existence of God therefore he (probably) doesn't exist, until you can provide evidence for his existence.

 

 

 

Hehehe, yes. You should have put 'seem to have no cause'.  Semantics FTW. Never speak in absolutes, only possibilites.

 

AHA!!! No absolutes means possibilities which means the universe isn't pre-determined which means we do make choices

 



tombi123 on 28 March 2009
WessleWoggle said:
Louie said:
I don't think spirituality is necessary actually. But philosophy is important. Without dreams and ideas our society can't move forward.

 

 

Philosophy ftw. I want to take philosophy in college.

 

I wish I took it instead of bloody Chemistry lol



mmnin on 28 March 2009
WessleWoggle said:
mmnin said:

Well I'm comfortable with how I see God and would gladly share my views with anybody of any religion.  (and yes I want to learn other views as well.)  I developed it based on my findings in life and experiences I have had, as I'm sure many have with their views.  I believe the more that we learn and see the closer we can come to that truth.  I think that Spirituality is actually a very necessary part to fully understanding everything.  Our subconscious, the beauty in art, the variations in humanity and lifeforms, the engrossing sounds of music, etc.  I think it all has ties to math, phsyics, and the universe.  There is definitely some sort of common life that is shared and I'd like to find the essence of it.  I may never find it, but at least i'm trying.

 

 

 

 

But what is spirituality?

I don't think it is necessary for anything.

It's a meaningless blanket term for many other things.

Reading bullshit texts is called spirituality. Phyisical feelings, like the kind I get during chakra exercises, or when like christians feel the 'holy spirit', is called spirituality. Bullshit practices, like burning notes to demons, praying, are called spirituality. Mental states, like someone thinking they're in touch with something outside themselves, people who think they're enlightened, is called spirituality.

Spirituality is not needed, unless you can tell me what spirituality is. It's just a blanket term.

Exactly,  just what is spirituality?  Where does it fit into everything?  It does exist, whatever it is.  Just like the ability for music to make us feel emotion or to feel closer to our respective "God."  the same thing that some people might get by being outside in nature.  The same type experience one might get while looking at fine art.  These things don't seem to have much to do with math and science, but I believe they do.  And I think when seeing them together one can discover wonderful things.  Perhaps discover why we are what we are as humans, perhaps if we even have souls, what makes our personalities, etc.  It could help us understand invisible aspects that we never considered before.  Parallel existences?  Is predicting the future real?  Do all times exist as one?  missing pieces to the unified force theory?  I'm just saying that these elements EXIST.  So they shouldn't be ignored, just as in the possible existence of God.  No evidence or phenomenon in life should be ignored completely, but incorporated, examined, sought out, in order to find out what exactly it is.  Just because you do not understand something or haven't experienced something, does not mean that it bares no relevance.

Spirituality is.  and as such should be explored.  Just because it doesn't seem to deal directly in numbers doesn't mean it can't in some way.  Just because the appeal of Art doesn't seem to reveal why the world turns, doesn't mean that it can't.  Just because Number Theory seems like a useless Math topic to a lot of doctors, doesn't mean that it doesn't hold some unfound significance that could bring us closer to information utopia. lol.

I know that math and physics do not "appear" to have much in common with the other topics, but it is only on the surface because of how we are taught in school.  We are forced to make the separation by the connections that we make in our mind.  It isn't until we get enough different memories into our subconscious that we are able to see how all the pieces fit together.  But if we only focus on one area, which almost everyone does, then it is near impossible to see a connection with another area, much less with 5 or 6.  If you only see 20% of a jigsaw puzzle or rather the top left corner, you may not be able to tell that it is a dog or a cat or whatever.  But if you were able to see all of the puzzle, or even the majority with sparse pieces absent, then you might be able to at least see what the image is.

 




Around the Network
amp316 on 28 March 2009

I'd ask him what exactly the meaning of life is.



Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

mmnin on 28 March 2009
Louie said:
mmnin said:

Oh and 1+1=0 when dealing with the group Z = {0,1} Math actually has all kinds of relative cases where our standard "logic" is no longer valid. Certainly most of what we use is still based somewhere on established principles but that does not have to be the case either.

 

sorry.  had to say it. lol.  And if you notice standard logic here fits very well with the discription that I gave earlier.

 

Err no Then you are talking about Z + Z = 0 in which case z = 0 that's all

If z = 1 then Z + Z = 2. Still the same.

You're only using a group Z = (0,1) for calculations when you don't know what z is. But we're talking about a variable here which still follows the logic of basic math

Oh and as for this.  in the group Z={0,1}  Then when you have 1, then you are at 1.  If you add 1 to it, then you cycle back to 0.  2 is not in the group and this group is closed under addition modulo 2.  It's Abstract Algebra.

 




Louie on 28 March 2009
mmnin said:
Louie said:
mmnin said:

Oh and 1+1=0 when dealing with the group Z = {0,1} Math actually has all kinds of relative cases where our standard "logic" is no longer valid. Certainly most of what we use is still based somewhere on established principles but that does not have to be the case either.

 

sorry.  had to say it. lol.  And if you notice standard logic here fits very well with the discription that I gave earlier.

 

Err no Then you are talking about Z + Z = 0 in which case z = 0 that's all

If z = 1 then Z + Z = 2. Still the same.

You're only using a group Z = (0,1) for calculations when you don't know what z is. But we're talking about a variable here which still follows the logic of basic math

Oh and as for this.  in the group Z={0,1}  Then when you have 1, then you are at 1.  If you add 1 to it, then you cycle back to 0.  2 is not in the group and this group is closed under addition modulo 2.  It's Abstract Algebra.

 

 

Well I misread your post then. Sorry for that. My point is still valid, though. But I'm tired of arguing right now.

I just think it's funny that you try to explain those things with so much passion



mmnin on 28 March 2009

@WessleWoggle

Oh it probably is, but it might be more literal than we think. I'm not sure yet. Hard to see the essence of life is. lol.

but yeah.  Traditions and whatnot?  meh.  Those aren't why people worship in their religions.  I'm not interested in the procedures but rather the meanings and corresponding connections that we make.  That isn't to say that God might not exist.  I agree that math is interwoven,  however I'm not to a point that I can say that math is the source, but it is definitely in everything. 

@Louie

I find it funny sometimes too. :p




Tyrannical on 28 March 2009
mmnin said:

@ Tyrannical


Actually, thinking back on it. A lot of educated people do use that argument, though they may not be educated in what they need to be in order to understand any weaknesses it might have. Typically someone thought it was witty and used it in their presence or a fellow skeptic passed along the thought and since they couldn't disprove it on the fly, they decided to use it. Then considering that most Christians, lower income protestants which make up the majority, are generally not of the highest education and probably would not be able to combat the phrase either, they then would think that it was a perfect way to make their point quickly. Usually I see these people, as Tombi seems to have done, throwing the statement to the world, even if it is just to one person, as if to rid it of all deities.

 

 

Well, certain religious theologians had debated that question for several hundred years. After much study, the basic conclusion was that it was a silly question not worth an answer.

 

I'm not sure I ever met an uneducated "good" protestant. Everyone I ever met was well read and had a firm understanding of the bible from both scripture and various other theologians. A lot of the more conservative denominations have bible study where most members go regularly. There are not a lot of christians who activley study the bible and try to understand it. So it is silly and a waste of time to ask theological questions to someone who claims they are a christian but lacks the understanding behind it.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire